I was a prisoner of the PMO cycle, and I came across nofap when I started having ED problems in bed. To make things extra stressful, my wife and I were trying to have kids. Not having sex was not an option and I needed to change. When I began nofap, I struggled to just get it up with my wife, or maintain an erection long enough to orgasm...now, when my wife is ovulating, I have sex about just about every day for the entire week...those of you who have been in a relationship with the same woman for about 10 years know that's impressive. On top of everything, the sex is much more enjoyable for both of us.

Again, for more details on my journey, please ready my older posts and reports. Since this will be my last post, I want to give you guys a few tips that really helped me get to where I am:

1) Meditation - Set aside as little as 5 minutes a day (morning works best for me) to slow things down and find inner peace. Make sure you are meditating in a room where you will not be disturbed. Even if you are, it's not the ned of the world...just continue to relax. Focus on your breath and try to empty your mind of everything else. It may be difficult at first, but you will get better. I typically wake up 10-15 minutes before my wife to get in my daily meditation. If I have an opportunity to do meditate in the afternoon, it's a bonus. There is a good deal of information on the internet that can help you get into meditation.

2) Diet - Eating clean and healthy made a big difference for me. I focus on making raw, uncooked fruits, vegetables and nuts the main staple of my diet. I eat meat, but I try to consume very little throughout the week. I saw the biggest difference when I switched to a gluten-free diet. I know many people have no problems with gluten and if that's the case, eating cleaner will probably do you just fine. For me, cutting it out of my diet was HUGE. This change resulted in increased energy, greater focus and the loss of about 10 pounds in the first two weeks. It's a pain in the ass since you have to say no to bread, pasta and beer. Gluten is also in many processed foods, but it's worth it. Again, there's a ton of information on the internet about going gluten-free.

3) Sex Without Orgasm - I now practice Karezza with my wife. That means I have sex but I do not orgasm. You are essentially "edging" with your partner. A lot of men think this is crazy, but if you try it you will find it to be very satisfying. You gain an increased desire for your partner, have more energy (just think how you feel after you cum!) and just feel better about yourself. As I mentioned above, when my wife is ovulating, we have sex every day and in that period I am cumming every day. I am absolutely DRAINED after that week and need a few days to recuperate. This is essentially a Sexual Hack...use it to your advantage.

4) Read This Book - The Tao of Health, Sex, and Longevity by Daniel Reid. All that time you would have spent masturbating can be used to improve yourself and get a better understanding of your body. The book is not religious and more of a practical guide to improve your health, life and sex. It was written by a westerner for a western reader. Many of the things I read are techniques talked about on these discussion boards to help guys get their regain their libido and erection strength...meditation, breathing exercises, kegles, abstaining from fantasizing about sex/women, diet, semen retention, etc...are all covered and discussed at length.

I wish you all luck.

180 Day Report...My Last Report by KSunrise01

Apple founder Steve Jobs wanted to indulge in tantric sex in his garden shed, new book by his ex-girlfriend Chrisann Brennan claims

Before his rise to international acclaim the couple "shared nights of lovemaking so profound that, astonishingly, some fifteen years later, he called me out of the blue to thank me," she claimed.  Photo: GETTY IMAGES

Steve Jobs asked his first girlfriend to "make tantric love with him in his garden shed" after returning from a transformational visit to India in the 1970s, she has claimed.

Chrisann Brennan said in a new memoir that she enjoyed "profound" nights of passion with the late Apple founder during a relationship after they met at school in California.

However after a trip to India in 1974, he developed a sexist attitude and "started to reject the feminine aspect as inferior to the glorious masculine", she wrote.

"It all broke open between us when he asked if I would make tantric love with him in his garden shed," said Ms Brennan. She felt neither was spiritually prepared and "the only word I had was an emphatic 'no'".

In 'The Bite In The Apple', Ms Brennan, now a graphic designer living in Monterey, California, sheds new light on the life of the visionary billionaire who died from cancer in 2011 at the age of 56.

Before his rise to international acclaim the couple "shared nights of lovemaking so profound that, astonishingly, some fifteen years later, he called me out of the blue to thank me," she claimed.

However, she added that Jobs was so concerned about saving his "energy for work" and "conserving one's vital energies" that he typically preferred not to climax.

In extracts previously published in The New York Post, Brennan disclosed that Jobs believed he had served as a Second World War fighter pilot in a previous life.

He also encouraged her to engage in "primal screams" of "Mommy, Daddy, Mommy, Daddy" after they took the psychedelic drug LSD together, she wrote.

Brennan and Jobs were living together when he co-founded Apple from a garage in California.

However "as Apple grew, so did Steve's sense of self-entitlement; in parallel they both seemed to take on lives of their own," she wrote in her memoir.

He eventually ended the on-off five-year relationship when Brennan became pregnant with a daughter, Lisa, whose paternity he long denied.

After he acknowledged paternity years later, he forged a close relationship with his daughter and she lived with him as a teenager. He paid for her to attend Harvard university and she is now a magazine writer.

Jobs, who left an estimated fortune of $8 billion (£4.95 billion), married Laurene Powell in 1991. The couple had three children together.

Original article

"Karezza" is a term coined over a century ago, and several old books discuss it. It can be interesting and enlightening to read what others had to say about it, or similar practices. Click the "WISDOM tab at the top of the page and explore some of the links in the lefthand margin.

Here's one visitor's "Recommended Reading" list:

(thegentlevegan) Let me say briefly which books and articles about Karezza I have been reading that have been ultimately helpful for our experience:

(emerson) I know this is difficult, but it's a romantic fantasy that people are going to "get" this up front. However, once you practice this sex with them, even if they are not, the magic happens. This is my preferred recommendation these days. Open mindedness happens when you are the example. Expecting to find someone already into this is like impossible. But someone receptive...well that's different.
I was watching a show from the UK called Fleabag, episode 2, and it actually addresses Karezza and lovemaking versus "fucking"...first time I've seen someone in a show get this right and address the issue. Point is, though, that you first meet someone, then you have sex, and you don't orgasm, and they get intrigued, and things evolve. That's how I see it. Anything else is doomed.

The worst way to explain it to a man is to say "it's like sex but you don't have an orgasm." Who wants that???? I also don't like the "affectionate gentle intercourse" angle, as that never seemed appealing when I was on the dopamine train. But if you say "you prolong sex, have lots of sexual intercourse, and delay your ejaculation for a long time and sometimes don't even bother ejaculating so you are always ready...and you get this amazing sensitivity and pleasure throughout your whole body" that can sell guys. Or at least the right guys.

(sender) It's a paradigm shift which implies that some people won't understand it just by explaining it using words, no matter how hard you try. Words typically only mean something when they describe an experience that's similar to one we've already had. Karezza is not like any experience I had had before, so I would not have understood it from words alone. In fact, the only reason I was even interested in trying Karezza was as a solution to the problem of how to continue to have sex with my wife while successfully rebooting from porn. Even then, I thought the idea of sex minus the orgasm was nuts, but I was determined to be rid of porn and wasn't excited about the prospect of 3 months without any sexual connection, so I was willing to give it a try. So although I did try it (and have not looked back since), my reasons were still largely selfish at that time. I expected Karezza to be this technique I could use to get by for a few months while I was recovering from PIED. Imagine my surprise when we discovered it was so much more than that!

NEWSFLASH: "Slow Sex" Film is a good way to introduce a partner to the concept of karezza-style sex

(Imnot - female) Last week I went out with a guy and I ended up talking to him about <em>Cupid's Poisoned Arrow</em> on the phone last night. He seemed smart and open-minded so I was comfortable talking about it. He was curious about it and ordered the book. The way I phrased it was that I tend to experiment with unconventional solutions, and this is the next experiment I want to do. That way I didn't have to sound like I was propositioning him, or delivering a premature ultimatum, especially since I'm not sure if there are serious feelings on either side.

If you write a profile on a dating site, it may help to say that you are coming out of an abusive relationship and you don't even want to think about sex for a while. But you may be interested in sex in the future, when the right guy comes along and you have had a chance to recover. That should discourage those who just want to have sex, without discouraging those who might actually be good long-term relationship material.

(Clarity) I have been on okcupid for a month or two and going on a lot of dates. I put a link to this site on my profile, partly to let potential dates know what they are in for, and partly to spread the word, even to people who aren't interested in me. I've gotten several messages from men just thanking me for letting them know about it. I've met several interesting men on there and am seeing a few of them. One in particular, though, is especially exciting to me right now. He is so intrigued by my sexual practice that he has stopped having orgasms. He's gotten through a week so far and seems really invested in giving this a real try. He's actually enjoying the build up of energy from quitting orgasm, not annoyed with it at all. And, like me, he is someone who loves sex and sensuality and savors the idea of hours and hours of slow, quiet breathing together.

One guy tried a Craigslist ad:

Have you come across the practice of Karezza? Karezza is a form of intercourse that emphasizes affection while staying far from the edge of orgasm. Climax is not the goal and ideally does not occur while making love for the man. [Actually, karezza's goal apply to both partners.]

Another Craigslist ad: Karezza (Montreal)

Corps : athletic Hauteur : 6'0" (182cm), age: 31

I am looking to explore a form of relationship called Karezza. Karezza is an ancient form of relationship union that is being revived by an author called Marnia Robinson in a book called Cupid's Poisoned Arrow. It's based on the idea that the typical way of sexual relationship leads to habituation between partners and inevitably leads to seperation due to our innate biological mating programs that steer us toward new partners. Karezza offers a different approach that focuses on bonding between lovers rather than overstimulation and orgasm.

Does anyone practice it? I am looking for a partner to explore with. A little about me,...

(Imnot - female) Last week I went out with a guy and I ended up talking to him about Cupid's Poisoned Arrow on the phone last night. He seemed smart and open-minded so I was comfortable talking about it. He was curious about it and ordered the book. The way I phrased it was that I tend to experiment with unconventional solutions, and this is the next experiment I want to do. That way I didn't have to sound like I was propositioning him, or delivering a premature ultimatum, especially since I'm not sure if there are serious feelings on either side. My perspective about men is somewhat different since I started this. My old reference points are less of a guide for me and I don't have such specific predictions about how things will play out (fall apart) according to the patterns I had noticed before. Before I felt like I had to find someone overwhelmingly compelling because whatever I felt for him at the beginning would be diminished as the relationship progressed. Now I feel like there are so many more options because I see how the initial chemistry is just a starting point. Things could develop and improve from there. Here's some of what I've learned:

• Communicate that karezza doesn't easily coexist with conventional sex, so he'll be motivated to find out what karezza entails.
• Have a book to loan him.
• Prolonging sexual tension is no fun when I'm not masturbating, it's uncomfortable. Making out soon is good because it soothes my tension, but the diverging point comes up pretty quickly and by that point I would want the guy to understand that I'm looking for a really different thing sexually.
• Richardson's book and Bass's book might be better for getting someone interested, while Marnia's book is better for showing why I made the decision. Focus on the positive aspects of karezza even though I based my decision on the negative aspects of conventional sex.

(Hanami99 - female) I would talk to my lover as we got close enough. I have to know him well. Then I will tell him that I need to trust that a man will hold me in his arms and gently make love to me with lots of kissing and eye contact. Only then can I give myself to him completely. My experience has been that a man is very moved by these words. If he can't maintain this kind of loving, I call it creative differences and move on.

You should speak from your own heart. I think when you can find your own words, this loving will be yours. You yourself have to be capable of letting someone love you only like this.

Men cut way back on the orgasms when they realize they're not tired and they can make love A LOT more.

(sender - male) Unfortunately, it might be [extremely] hard to find a guy who's already on this path. I've been in a men's group for almost 20 years; these are guys who work on themselves at a deep level, and I wasn't able to convince a single one of them to try it with their women. Some of them are aware of Taoist sexual practices (like Mantak Chia). Not even my testimonials regarding the amazing benefits in my own marriage was sufficient to persuade them. Not one of them is happy with their marriage, and yet they aren't willing to change this one simple thing for a few weeks just to see if it might in fact be the missing "secret sauce". Without exception, they all say, "no, it's not that, it's all these other things that are her fault...". Fascinating. That can only mean one thing: orgasm-attachment is strong.

I must admit, when I first read about Karezza (in the context of rebooting from porn addiction), I thought the whole idea was crazy. I only tried it because I wanted to recover from porn addiction and my ED symptoms caused by it without giving up sex with my wife. Karezza was the way to do that; otherwise, I might never have tried it. It's a significant paradigm shift, which means it can't be understood intellectually - you have to see it for yourself from experience. But it's really hard to persuade someone to try it without already having had the experience...so it's a chicken and egg problem.

Maybe instead of focusing so much on the man's orgasmic behavior, you could try to focus instead on the downstream effects you're looking to cultivate (e.g. feeling connected, loving, sustainable sexual energy, etc.) and only after you are both invested in the relationship, then you begin to explain about the Coolidge Effect, CPA, etc.

(strawberry field - Female) - [Writing about what felt like transformational sex with her boyfriend who has been inconsistent in his enthusiasm for karezza) What was different?
First of all I was in a completely self-assured mood, I was very sure about my leadership-qualities and therefore lead him without forcing or urging anything. In general it felt like it wasn´t my conscious will that lead us both - it was more like following my intuition. Something inside of me just knew what would be our next step and I let it guide him as well as me. I did not have much to do, I kept my focus at present, I relaxed and enjoyed. Like Osho says somewhere: The sex just happened.

Also my boyfriends appearance seemed very "real"...I focused on him, so I could be together with him for real and it worked. In general, everything seemed very real as if I was closer to reality...sometimes it was so close that it seemed to go into reverse and even felt unreal...very much reality seems unreal, well, that´s interesting, lol.

One moment I had to calm him down but I felt quite comfortable with telling him to slow down. I just told him I wanted to enjoy the slow sex a little longer and that I could feel him more intensive inside me when he goes slow. There was nothing hidden going on with that simple request, no fear of being rejected or demanding too much or anything, it was just the direct expression of a true wish. And because (I guess it´s because) it came directly from me to him without using any detours (manipulation, forcing etc) it must have been easy for him to meet my desire. So we had a wonderful time prolonged.

There were new ideas of sex-positions and how to be caressive appearing "out of nowhere" during intercourse, I guess because of the high level of intuition. But most impressive was that I felt so very self-assured...I wouldn´t say without doubts but there were not many of them. No stupid questions in my mind like "is it right this way or should I do it that way...what if he didn´t like it...what if it´s not enough karezza-style...blah..."
It´great to be without stupid questions during intercourse! The following intercourses were similar to this experience, so I was happy it wasn´t only a moment of joy but could have the meaning that a real transformation is going on. I am not expecting too much but will try to lead him as I did. I think I might have learned the difference between leading and forcing...maybe I have claimed this a few times before, but this time it´s not coming from my head but from my soul...I´ve experienced it directly through my body and didn´t just deduce it with my rationality. I guess experience is the only way to understand truly what good slow sex means but we discuss it anyway...which is good because one gets more and more a feel for the whole idea...so I share it.

Discussing sex is mostly not very helpful, it´s exhausting and often annoying - so if you have other opportunities you should use them. Let things work at another level. I think training intuition is helpful in that matter.

(Darryl) If I were to give fellow men advice around introducing karezza to a new lover, it would be this. First and foremost, do it for yourself. Make it your direction, your commitment to you. I'd do it by example. I can easily see how a woman could look at karezza as one more hare-brained male idea. Don't get me wrong, I would definitely and enthusiastically share with your new woman the virtues of non-orgasmic lovemaking. Give her the book and a link to this web site, and then drop it, unless she asks you for more. Believe me, your "doing by example" will mean way more to her than anything you say.

The way I handled not orgasming, was simply to say "stop" or "slow down" when I was too close to the edge. Sometimes I would just signal with my hands on her hips. The key is that your girl honors your wishes not to orgasm, and will stop when you need it. It's to her benefit, as you can go on much longer, are almost always ready for her, and your sexual sensitivity increase, all good things for the woman. Also, the more you don't orgasm the easier it gets not to.

Now if you just happen to meet a woman who gets right on board with you, then you'll know you're one lucky man. If not, let patience be your way. I strongly believe that karezza style lovemaking is naturally the feminine way, in the feminine flow, and she will respond. You just may need to enlist her support around the "stop" thing in the beginning. You could tell her it's something that's important to you and that her satisfaction is just as important as well, so, "Let's work together." If I had to do it all over again knowing what I know now, I'd do it basically the same way - with the addition of sharing the karezza information and sources to read. To be quite honest she'd follow me anyway.

Wouldn't it be great to start a new relationship DEMONSTRATING that your direction is sound? (advice to another guy) I remember when I first slept with the woman who would become my wife. We just cuddled together naked for at least two or three nights before we had intercourse. This was quite unusual for me, with previous girl friends, when the clothes came off we had sex. I think it really set the tone for our future together. I had actually forgotten we had done this together until a year ago, many years after we were engaging in karezza sex. You may want to try some bonding behavior like this the first time you're naked together. You could say something like, "Lets just hold each other. I want to really feel who you are this time." When you do engage sexually you could say, "I really like to go slow so I can drink in your feminine beauty." That will really get her attention. If she starts to speed it up, say,"Slow down I want to savor you," and then wrap you arms around her firmly.

Believe me, you can set the tone. Find me a woman who doesn't want to be savored and have her feminine beauty adored. Once she gets the sense of how you behave with her then you can introduce the concept of karezza. Actions always speak louder than words and a conversation about karezza can scare a potiential partner. Show her first with your body. It also shows her you're a man with a direction and purpose. Women love male clarity when it comes from the heart. Make a commitment to your journey and you will find a woman who will share your vision.

In my opinion your challenge is to be able to stay cool during lovemaking with a new woman when you haven't had any karezza practice with a partner. You may want to consider some solo sexual cultivation to get at least some feel of sexual arousal that doesn't lead to orgasm. It will help to retrain your brain a little bit, showing you that sexual arousal doesn't alway have to end in orgasm.

(To a woman) If I were a woman looking for a guy who would be open to non-orgasmic lovemaking I'd want two qualities. First, that he demonstrates, in some way, his capacity for direction in his life. Making the choice to give up orgasming, and then following through with it, is no easy task for a guy. He'll have to be determined to do it, and at its core it will have to be his decision for himself first. If he does it just for you it won't ring true. Second, he'll need to show he's open to feminine wisdom. Male direction is great, but without feminine wisdom a guy is only partially on track. Feminine wisdom brings depth and fullness to a guy's direction. A number of major things in our lives were instigated by my wife. The funny part was that I thought some of them were my idea's until she pointed that they were hers, and that I implemented them. How deflating!! Somehow I forgot that part.

If you explain karezza to your potential partner and he says, "Tell me more" you probably have a keeper. It says he's open to you and your feminine perspective. If he immediately contracts, and gives you an "I don't know" look or answer, then you may have an uphill battle on your hands.

From being a guy and knowing them pretty well, I can say that giving up orgasm is one tough sell for the male psyche. So you might want to ask him to think on it and give him some information to read, like the Wisdom page on this website. If, when you see him again, after he's had some time to chew on it, and he's still locked down about it, I would move on. Do you really want a guy who, right from the beginning, can't hold space for what's important to you? Look for the guy who says, "Tell me more." He's your man. You mention something about a guy who may practice karezza with you but isn't a good fit, and wondering how it might end. I think it would end because it wasn't a good fit. I don't believe karezza would save a relationship that's not a good match but I do believe karezza can bring harmony to one that is solid but floundering.

(Telepathy) I mention karezza in my OKCupid profile. And I am a man. As someone interested in karezza I would be overjoyed to find another person interested in it. Karezza obviously shows a high level of seriousness in a person. That is what I am seeking, and the only thing I will accept. If someone is too immature to speak about (or contemplate) non-orgasmic sex they are probably not a suitable partner for me. Isn't it strange that we supposedly live in a sexually liberated culture, but we feel we can't even talk about sex openly with the person we will be having it with beforehand?

(lucky) Speaking from my experience, my partner brought up karezza very early on when I initially broached the topic of sexuality. I had never heard of it before, but I was very intrigued by the practice and the fact that he had a different view on sex made him all the more interesting to me.

(Rachel) (Advice to forum member) I understand how hard it is for your lover to understand why you don't want to have orgasmic sex anymore. Men can get very attached to seeing their women orgasm, as can women when it comes to a man's ejaculation. However, in the end, it is *your* body, and you have the final word as to what you do with it. No one can make you have an orgasm. (I know it *feels* like someone can make you have one, but in reality, it's your own mind that leads you to it) So if you want to try making love without it, then that is entirely up to you. It's hard mental work if someone insists on trying to make you have one--so you might need to have a discussion about that. But on the other hand, it's also *his* body, and if he wishes to have an orgasm, that is his prerogative. I don't see karezza as an "all or nothing" situation.

The beauty of karezza is the *way* you make love. It allows you to open up to him sexually as never before. As you continue to get greater and greater satisfaction through lovemaking, the more you will want to do it. Where it becomes a partnership is when you are able to trust him enough to open up to him fully (physically and through your heart), and he is trustworthy enough to go slow and not hurt you by bruising your cervix. Once he has been invited into your deepest space, he won't want to have the door closed on him again. The tricky part is finding out whether he would like to try to make love this way. Once he has given it an extended try, I think he will really start to love it (but no guarantees! I don't think everyone is at a point where they are ready for it). In my own relationship, I would rather not have orgasms. I get sad and a bit off-kilter when I have them.

But sometimes, after many hours and days of making slow love, my beloved consciously decides to have one at the end of our time together. That his choice. Because he doesn't seem to suffer after-effects, it's something he might do occasionally. (I have yet to ever feel that he withdraws from me emotionally, etc., but perhaps that is because we have spent so much time in closeness of our souls and hearts.) His orgasm does not negate the beauty of our lovemaking or our time together! I was also in a marriage for 22 years~~and one of the first things I promised myself after my divorce is that I would never again try to be someone I'm not just to please another person. So if that means I want to be an orgasm-shunning woman, then so be it! And if my lover decides he'd rather be with someone to whom he can give orgasms, then so be it, too! But I think he's pretty much forgotten about the whole "make her cum" thing, lol, thank goodness!

(Marnia) My thought, for what it's worth, is that there's no "right" way. Trust your intuition. Some people click with the science; some with the ancient wisdom; some with your own story, etc. No one clicks with having the information shoved down their throats. If people are meant to hear this, they often give you an opening that makes it clear what approach would work best. For example, they may say they are discouraged about relationships. Well...that's your cue to tune up about why you're now feeling more optimistic, and that you're looking forward to testing this "crazy theory" for yourself someday. Or they may say something about why humans can't be monogamous...and you share about the Coolidge Effect and bonding behaviors, etc. Or they may mention tantra, and you talk about some of the other traditions that have made similar discoveries. Or they may mention past relationship troubles, and you could ask if they ever noticed things started going of course after the "honeymoon stage" --even if they had a good physical relationship. Or if they started to drive each other crazy. If they say "yes," you can mention that you just started reading a good book about that and it talks about the biology of relationships. If they're curious, lend them the book. One person suggested testing how open a perspective partner might be by talking about yoga, chi energy, chinese medicine, etc. and gauging the reaction. A male friend says he has taught karezza to a new lover with his body alone:

When I engage I keep it slow. I make sure I don't orgasm. If she wants to, that's her business, I don't preach. Because I've been being non-orgasmic for a long time, it's not difficult to manage my own arousal, even with someone who focuses on stimulation and orgasm. It's not that hard to keep a partner in the middle zone when you know what you're doing. I would say I put out an energy of, "I'm not going where you're going, but if you like, you're more than welcome to come over here where I am." If I need to slow someone down, I'll do it with a word or two, or with my body. At some point you see something dawning on the other person. A sort of, "Hey, what’s going on here? This is different, and mmm...kind of nice. I think I like this." It’s such a sweet way to introduce karezza to someone. You'd be surprised how positive the response usually is. I look at it as a kind of gift I'm giving. Normally a person would have to be introduced to the concept somewhere, wrap their mind around it, and then stumble along with their partner as they try to get the hang of it through trial and error. Because of my experience, my partner gets to jump into the middle of the experience and get a real taste of what it's all about. I love the sharing that happens. I remember a lovely friend saying, "You can go now" (meaning, "have your orgasm"), after engaging for quite some time, definitely longer than she was used to. I said, " I don't do that." You could see the wheels spinning in her head as she digested the experience. The next time she was all over it, wanting more, and ended up getting so behind the idea that she had a conversation with her teenage son telling him this was the way to make love when he began being sexual. You would think that someone practicing karezza would get pulled into the hot conventional style sex by the other person but it’s by far the other way around. If you're confident, they can feel you're on to something, and they usually lean into it. Now, of course, if they're really going to move into non-orgasmic lovemaking they will still have to go through the rewiring process but they have a tangible personal experience to relate to

Young woman attempts to explain the concept of karezza to some unruly DJs.

[Marnia to a man wondering about discussing it with a prospective partner]The problem of "enlightening" a partner is a tricky one, especially today because hopping into bed for sex seems such an Obviously Right Idea. If she reads English, you could tell her about the bizarre book you read by an American woman and ask her what she thinks of it...just as a way of gauging her response. Who knows? She may like the idea. And if she hates it, then that will be useful information, too. I do not recommend trying to explain the ideas to her yourself. These ideas don't make sense to ANYone at their first hearing. There's a lot of natural resistance, and it gets projected onto the person talking about them. Better she project it onto me than you! Also, a book takes a slower, more redundant (at least in the case of my book) approach, so people have time to allow their resistance to arise and have their questions addressed.

When we got together, my husband said something that I think you guys can use in this situation. It was something like, "I don't mind taking a slow approach because I've noticed that when I rushed my relationships (sexually speaking), they tended to be short and end badly. I hope this relationship will last." Those weren't his exact words, but those were the key concepts. The challenge from the woman's perspective is that if you aren't trying to jump on her, she doubts her attractiveness. By letting her know you hope the relationship will bloom, she can relax because she knows you find her attractive. That said, women who are hooked on vibrators or porn, are gonna be like guys hooked on porn/masturbation...very needy and insistent and very unable to think in terms of the big picture. So if she's not ready, don't blame yourself!

(Anonymous woman) [She decided to move to sex without orgasm, but her partner wasn't on board]

Thought I'd share our most recent experience... As usual, I've been "avoiding" (enjoying the lack of!) orgasm, but B has not (at least not entirely- he "indulges" about once a week). Since we got together, I noticed he was struggling with drinking more and he started to smoke again (he had quit for a full year). I decided to let him bring me to climax last week - to observe the results myself. Wow, was I amazed at the extreme emotional upheaval that followed within a few days! The first day I started to feel a bit "distant" and detached from him. Within three days I was a raging bitch, and moved back into my own place for two nights! I honestly thought and felt it was the end for us! Thank goodness, I began to calm down, and reached for "the book" (your book, of course, no bibles ) I've read parts of it at least two or three times now. I started with the science, then backtracked to the intro and stories. It really took repeated readings and my own experience to fully connect with the consequences of fertilization sex. You are right - achieving a good experience with "karezza" and then comparing that again with "traditional" sex provides the contrast needed to really "get" it! Lucky for me, B is a patient, forgiving, and understanding guy! He's rereading the book as well, and is in on it 100 percent with me now ( I guess one bad experience with "bitchy" me is enough to turn any man!!) He's already calmer, not smoking, and not drinking. I'm very hopeful that he will be able to become a light social drinker eventually, like I am, so we can enjoy a glass of wine with dinner, etc. Honestly - this stuff is so critical to relationship health, personal health, and perhaps even the future of our planet! Anything I can do to help get this into other people's hands I will do!

A cool thing that happened was we went for a walk down to this wonderful spot right behind his house where we could sit on a stone wall and look into the creek. We never did that when we were so busy in bed. It felt very young and innocent and romantic. He kept confusing "sex" and "orgasm" as we talked, and I kept having to reseparate them. He asked me some clarifying questions "So, you want to have sex, but not with orgasms?""Right.""Have you ever done that before?""Not in a long, long time.""I've done that a lot. That's the best kind of sex.""Right, yes." And (ding! ding! ding!) I realized that both of us had been thinking in the backs of our heads that the orgasmic fucking was a phase we needed to get past so we could get to the good stuff eventually. Pretty amazing realization, and really the insight of the evening for me. Of everything I told him, the thing that really seemed to make the most sense to him was the idea of the mating program and the bonding program. I explained the concept and he practically shouted "God! That's so true!" He has struggled with addictions enough and learned enough about brain chemistry that when I made a dopamine vs oxytocin distinction he was right on board immediately.

So we had a truly epic hug, the kind of hug I always wish a hug could be. Snuggly and endless, with sighing and giggling and gentle squeezes and lots and lots of stillness. A few sweet kisses, some more hugs, and good night. We are so far off the script now neither of us seemed to really know our lines anymore. But that feels like freedom. I don't want to leave this with the impression that I converted him or that we are on the same page at this point. Our conversation was punctuated by his adamant refusal to ever consider giving up orgasm himself. I presented the whole thing as a personal decision on my part and didn't try to suggest he alter his behavior in any way. Turns out he only masturbates every week or two anyway when he doesn't have a lover. I could see the wheels spinning though and I did suggest that he reconsider some of his previous relationships in this light. When we were seeing each other, he told me a lot about his relationship woes. He did say "well, sex was always the sticking point. It's always caused the most arguments, but usually because they DIDN'T want to have sex and I was so frustrated."

There was a particularly poignant moment as he was pondering his previous relationships and then came back to the reality that I wasn't going to have orgasmic sex with him and he looked deflated and said "I just never can win." Awww. I really felt bad for him in that moment. Here's this woman he wanted for years, reconnecting, having a wonderful, romantic evening and she's given up orgasm altogether? What the hell? Poor guy. And (second ex lover to do this) he teased me that there was no way that I could possibly ever have sex without having orgasms anyway. His philosophy on the whole thing, which I very much appreciate, was "But I'm still alive!!!" By which he meant that life is always a struggle, we always feel pulled along by our dopamine and that you can't get off the ride until you die. And a wild ride it is. Feeling insatiable is feeling alive, because if you were satisfied, you might as well be done with it all. When I said I felt totally crazy when we were dating and that my perception of reality was altered, he said "that's part of the fun!" He said only boring people get bored and that love and sex without orgasm sounded boring to him.

I told him I wanted to live the oxytocin propelled life instead of the dopamine life for a while and see what I think. His attempts to negotiate out of this deadlock were pretty hilarious. "Ok, so what about couldn't you have that relationship you want with all the hours of tantric energy exchange and everything and then just every few months or so just go at it and do some serious fucking?" I laughed. "I think you probably just described my future. I don't know. I'm new to this, it's really an experiment at this point. We'll see." So yeah. It was great to talk to someone who was neither a fellow convert nor completely dismissive. He really engaged the ideas and gave me fresh insight. I had been looking forward to healing our friendship for a while, but I'm glad I didn't see him until now. With my new perspective, we were able to really connect in a more profound way. So, even though we kept our clothes on this time, I left his house feeling a stronger, deeper, more lucid and honest affection for him than I ever did when we were fucking. All in all, a lovely evening.

(Suggestion by a man to a woman who wants her boyfriend to try karezza) I would say "I'm not going to come for awhile. I'd like to explore my sexual nature without having an orgasm." And you proceed from that point of view. Slow him down if you feel he is getting to intense for you applying clitoral stimulation or whatever that is putting you over the edge, and abstain from having him give you oral, and you can proceed to explore this.

I know it sounds weird. But really, it will be much easier for him to jump aboard on his own, once you are doing your thing. A man will take a woman's lead here after a bit, it won't take much. Just to try things out for a few weeks.

• This guy tries to explain to men...

(westgate - male) Bonding behaviours and non-orgasmic sex discussions during dating I have brought this up with a couple of girls who i felt were interested in me, but had only just met me. heh heh. Great way to come across as weird. Most people find these topics awkward and weird when some potential date/fling/prospect brings it up soon after getting going. I think you have to establish an emotional bank balance with them first (get connected at least a little with other topics). It's funny how you are experienced as 'weird' to talk about this stuff straight away, but I'm sure if we played out the old mating game of attraction, we would be able to have sex far sooner than we'd be comfortable talking about it. That insistent old mating brain... On the other hand, I brought these ideas up with girls I had known for some time at work. The response here was very good. I find many people are fascinated by these ideas. I also find it's a great way to sort out who has depth of feeling and sensitivity and who is shallower. SUMMARY: Karezza is a great topic for conversation, provided someone is comfortable with you already.

(tattvamasi - male) So I have profiles on a few different internet personals sites. One of those sites is Okcupid. It's kind of a social network and online dating site rolled into one- there are some people on there looking for friends, while others are looking for more intimate connections. So there are various sections users can fill out on their profiles, one of which is "Most private thing I'm willing to admit." Here's what mine says: "I don't believe in orgasm. Shocking, I know! This realization came after much research that ended up dovetailing very nicely with things my own intuition has told me for quite some time. Confused? Angered? Intrigued? I'm happy to discuss..." I was editing my profile like a week ago and decided to just lay that out there to see what happened. To my pleasant surprise, I'm piquing the curiosity of many women. The general reaction is kind of like, "A man... a person with a penis... saying he doesn't believe in orgasm?!?!? Wow, I gotta find out what this is all about!" I actually exchanged a couple of really great e-mails with a woman recently. She was curious about why I choose not to orgasm, so I gave her a very rough outline (I probably didn't do it justice!) of the ideas in Marnia's book. Here's what she said in response: "It makes sense. I often think that the whole act can be boring and a chore if the goal is ultimately an orgasm and not to be close to one another. Its hard to find a man these days who has a deeper understanding on sex, and well, relationships in general. I think its partly that I keep meeting boring jerky men who have no desire for depth or a purpose driven life. Im going to check that book out too. Thanks :)" Then, a couple messages later she said: "It really does sound like an amazing experience. I grew up in a very spiritual household and have these deep engrained beliefs that sex is spirtual and not just physical satisfaction. But in my life so far have not had that experience. I imagine you have to be with a partner you love and care for. it sounds like there is such an intimacy to it. A lot of people would probably shy away from that kind of deep human connection." We ended up meeting for coffee the other day, and it was nothing short of magical. The conversation rolled right along for an hour and a half before she ended up having to go back to work. It almost seemed that we finished each other's sentences at times. There were plenty of synchronicities throughout the conversation as well. It was almost like the Universe was like, "See! Don't be shy about your beliefs! Shout it from the rooftops and you'll attract amazing people into your life!" There were things that she was saying and ideas she was expressing that I have been reading about in a book (The book is called "Anastasia"- book I of the Ringing Cedar series... check it out!) over the past couple of days. These were some pretty unconventional ideas, so the fact that she was talking about them... it was like she was reading my thoughts! We talked about how children are Art, the ultimate expression of creation... and right as we were talking about this, a woman pushing a stroller stopped right in front of our table. We looked down at this beautiful baby inside, then looked at each other in an amused kind of awe. What a great date it was. We have plans to go out again soon, and I'm greatly looking forward to it. So I guess what I'm trying to express, wonderful karezza community, is don't be shy about this amazing concept. I simply put it out there with a kind of "take it or leave it" mentality. Some women message me and are very curious about it, others don't mention it. It seems to be a nice balance between being completely quiet about karezza and trying to push it on people. If you let them meet you halfway, then the door to dialogue is open.

(intriqued - male) I met her through a mutual friend a few weeks ago. After a great evening together she asked to come back to my place. It was really awkward timing. I had just said my good byes to my girlfriend (a fantastic relationship (love on both sides, but riddled and ultimately ruined by my ED issues) a few days before and had just started my reboot (day 3). I said she could, but I explained that I couldn't do anything that night. I wasn't really presuming anything but just wanted to be honest and lay my cards on the table. So we spent the night caressing, feeling, touching, kissing, laughing, talking, and getting to know each other's bodies. It must of gone on for hours. Our clothes stayed on (underwear) throughout. I guess this was a non-conscious attempt at Karezza. Knowing that sex was off the cards made things really relaxed. I am not sure I would of suggested this kind of 'sex' myself, had it not been for my reboot, but I actually got a lot out of the no-O evening together. Later that night she caught me off guard by telling me she hadn't had sex for 6 months. She said she came to the realisation that casual sex wasn't improving her life and so decided to make the rule to only have sex with someone she had true feelings for. Like myself she was trying to change her relationship towards sex. I should give her a copy of Cupid's Poisoned Arrow. The next time we met (12 days into reboot) we had a great day together (museums, gigs, walking), and again ended up in bed together. Again we took things slowly. She said she felt odd, and at one point left the room saying she had to have a moment to herself to think things through. She apologised when she came back in. I told her not to worry. She said she wasn't going to have sex with me that night; fine by me We spent a lot of time together (kissing, touching, cuddling) before 'escalating'. I completely lost track of time. I really couldn't tell you if it was 30 minutes or 2 hours. I seem to have started enjoying these more natural encounters. Seeing where things go rather than trying to force things. It's not my normal language but it felt a little spiritual. Revelling in another's touch, moving, anticipating, sensing each other. Relaxed and getting turned on without any sense of performing.

===========================

(Another male) After limited success with different types of dating, I've just gotten more and more direct over time. Finally, I got to the point of being completely direct on an online advert, I wrote something like, "If the theory is that you can find whatever you're looking for online, I'm looking for a friend to spend time with; kiss, touch, give physical affection to. Nothing skeevy. I'm normal and sane. Oxytocin is good for you." Now I just have to figure out a system of sorting through all the women who replied.

(recreatingone) I just met someone in the fall of last year and it's still fresh how I introduced it to her. I was doing internet dating and i posted something about karezza on the site and in my profile. Once we met and started chatting back and forth it became a question of curiosity. I was able to explain that i was looking for a partner who was open to karezza because i have learned some interesting things. She took the bait and and asked me "like what?" i went to tell her that i have learned that at least some people can be prone to changes in the brain after orgasm that lead to feelings of depletion, neediness and things that would cause fighting amongst partners. She was fascinated by this and now I know why. From there we have had episodes of being successful with Karezza and lately not so much. When things were being held to the karezza way of sexual interaction there was a lot more harmony in our relationship. We found that penetration from me being on my side and her on her back was more intimate and less sexually dominating or stimulating. From there if we kept to that all things were good. The problem i think we got into is that we learned how to "edge" and then it became like an experiment to try different positions and see if we could "edge" but not orgasm. I can tell you now from experiences that this game of too much edging gets us in trouble and one of us winds up orgasming. So we are now in a reboot and trying to save ourselves because too much edging and leads to orgasm and then right back to the cycle again. Now there have been times when I spontaneously orgasmed by just floating inside of her and not trying an vigorous movements and then we did not seem to have the "fallout". I guess the love hormones saved us. So if you are having "casual sex" with a partner that you may not be with again, then first of all, it won't matter if she thinks you're weird right? Second, if you think the two of you will be back making love again, then why not start out on the right foot and tell her something interesting your exploring and see if she takes the bait.

(sood) Http://www.reuniting.info/blogs/curiousfellow/cuddle-sutra The drawings are simple but, I think, sexy: and that's with clothes on. If your bloke doesn't seem too keen on a prolonged diet of either the Exchanges or cuddling, it seems to me, if you're willing, you could take turns to make love each other's way. He can't force you to have an orgasm if you'd rather not, and you can't force him not to have one if he wants to; but you could both agree to make love slowly, one day, in the way you want, and faster, the next time, as he prefers.

We found knowing we would do what we most wanted, next time, made doing now, what we wanted less, much easier. It also enabled suprising, and effortless, changes to take place in what we prioritised. Scheduled lovemaking was great fun, and took all the pressure off.

(blissed) My wife lies flat on her back on our bed. I usually start by massaging her legs from thigh to ankle. I can tell how effective I am by the sounds she makes as she lets go of tension. This is time well-spent as the more deeply relaxed she is, the better the Karezza. Then, from the foot of the bed, I slowly move forward on my hands and knees, over her body, until our chests are matched up. I hold the bulk of my own weight on my knees and lower arms, but press into her to the degree that's pleasant for both of us. Gentle movements against her pubis, while our chests are together, soon has her squirming around underneath me. Sometimes, in a gentle, playful way, we will dry hump like a couple of horny teenagers. No attempt is made at PIV until she says to me in her sweet voice, "Honey, I'm ready."

Early in our marriage, rather than me always asking her if she was ready, we decided to have her ask me specifically to put my penis in her vagina, but only when she was completely ready. This let me know she was ready, and just as important, her asking me to put myself inside her was very good for her emotions because her initiating gave her more of a sense of freedom and choice.

Sex had been so traumatic for her in a previous relationship that she had spent a lot of time running away from it, and then giving in to sex she didn't want out of a false sense of duty. Her specifically asking me to join our bodies in lovemaking has been an effective remedy for the trauma, stress, and lack of freedom in her past.

(FinallyHappy) *Almost* everything I have learned about Karezza has come from this amazing website. I thought I should pay-it-forward in a sense and offer a very personal part of my Karezza experience as I think others will benefit from it greatly.

[More]

One of these days I hope to write down my whole story and my experience with karezza, as I know that my mission in life is to teach others about this. In a nutshell, I was raised in a home without affection, security, comfort (yada, yada, yada) and I had reluctantly accepted that I was suffering from an insecure attachment disorder. My partner was my very best friend and we loved being together, but every time he touched me, I was filled with anxiety. My heart broke whenever I looked at him because all he wanted to do was give me his love and he couldn't. I had no idea how to be loved by him and I had even less of an idea how to tap into my love and give it to him. Psychologically I understood exactly what was going on and why, but I was unable to find a tool to help myself. I was consumed with "fixing" what was "wrong" with me, but no matter what I tried, nothing worked. My partner and I were heartbroken together.

On a (very) random occasion, my anxiety was at bay when my partner touched me. We made love that night in a way we never had before (very karezza-ish) and the next day I felt so good and so close to him. I wondered why, so I started researching and realized that oxytocin was the reason I felt that way. I started looking up ways to increase oxytocin and stumbled upon this site. My life was forever changed. Karezza was the tool I had been looking for. My love and I have been together for 9 years - 8 of those years, we suffered a great deal together... but the last year, with karezza, has been nothing short of magical. I am finally happy <3

I have had great success [explaining this to] couples. My love grins ear to ear as he watches me work karezza into conversations at just the right moment. He says people are captivated by me and that I could sell anything to anyone. I don't agree that I could sell anything, only things that I believe in whole-heartedly. People look at me like I am reading their minds, but in reality, we are all fighting most of the same battles. The answer is always the same... it's true, connected love, and it's usually sleeping right next to them.

[Reply by a man on the forum]

What a wonderful story! Thank you for sharing!

Sarita and Gebo, in their excellent book, 'Tantric Love,' call that technique 'Mother-Child Meditation' (p. 106). They recommend that the male latch on for 20 minutes. They recommend that the couple not pursue intercourse immediately thereafter, but wait a few hours, as "...This (intercourse) would disrupt the delicate inner process that has been initiated in both of you..." They also recommend that a couple perform this, ideally, daily on 10 consecutive days.

The rest of the book is akin to the 'Ecstatic Exchanges' in Marnia's book, but with lovely photos.

Here is the entire section on p. 106:

Mother-child meditation

The Breast-sucking (photo on right) technique can be done whether or not you and your partner are lovers; it does not involve sexual intercourse. The woman takes the role of the mother with a baby and the man becomes the baby. After the meditation you should not, under any circumstances, enter into intercourse. This would destroy the delicate inner process that has been activated in both of you. If you and your partner are lovers, you can enter sexual union after a few hours.

It may happen that a great desire for sex arises during the meditation because of openness, intimacy, and vulnerability. Sometimes the man fears losing his manhood and will want to prove it by having sex; sometimes the woman may feel a surge of pleasure as she relaxes inter her breasts. Just keep witnessing those feelings, but do not let them distract you. The sucking is that of a baby seeking nourishment, not of a man seeking to turn on a woman. There is a great differences If you are not sure what the difference is, watch a baby sucking on a mother's breast.

This mediation is to be done ten times, preferably every day, for ten days.

(This is the verbiage under the photo)
Breast-sucking meditation

If you are the woman, take the role of a mother with her baby. Hold your partner and be with him exactly like a woman is with her infant. Do not talk other than in baby talk. If you are the man, become the baby. Curl up in your partner's lap and suck her breasts for 20 minutes, just like a baby. After the meditation, separate, bow in gratefulness, and move apart without speaking. Under no circumstances should you enter into intercourse.

(Post by husband in his 50s, recently remarried) This post will be at least a start of relating some of the highlights of what we have learned in our practice of karezza for the first 6 1/2 months of our karezza marriage.

After we had settled into our nice room where we spent our 3 day honeymoon, we took turns slowly "unwrapping" each other, kissing, and touching, and then we took a relaxing tub bath together. After that we took turns touching and looking over each other's bodies in the natural light. I then told her that she was very beautiful, and that her vagina and labia were also beautiful and looked like the petals of a flower. This was a miracle because, when we had talked a week or two before we were married, my beloved had voiced that she wanted us to make love under the covers and in the dark. I simply voiced that I would like to make love openly and in the daylight or with the lights on. And then we prayed that we would be brought into harmony on this question. Fast-forward to us walking into the room with our bags with her walking ahead of me. We were both immediately pleased with everything about the room, and all her reservations about me seeing her body, and us making love in the light, were swept away in an instant. What a pivotal moment !!

When we first attempted intercourse, we used some walnut oil for lublication and I was soft. My beloved laid on the bed with her back flat and straight, and when I saw how low her vaginal entrance was, I suggested that we try connecting with her legs straight up in the air. I was upright on my knees and moved in close to her. By pressing her feet and calves against my chest and shoulders she was able to arch and raise her bottom so that her vagina and my penis were in perfect alignment with each other. I then asked her to part her "flower" for me as I slowly and gently and easily inserted just the head of my penis inside her. With that first small step she had (on a scale of one to ten) level 5 pain in the entrance to her vagina. I asked her to tell me if she wanted me to withdraw. She wanted to hang in there, and let our genitals talk to each other, while we both remained perfectly still. Within 5 to 10 minutes the pain had diminished to about 3 and remained at that level, and after another 5 minutes or so I withdrew. We then spoke about what we had learned, cuddled, put our chests together for a short time, and then had some light refreshments.

A couple of hours later we joined together again in the same way, but her initial pain this time was less, and the duration of the pain was also slightly less. Later that evening we joined together in the scissors position and fell asleep for a couple of hours. We were both very encouraged by the immediate, small incremental improvements, and we felt that the more time that we had my penis in her vagina the sooner our bodies would be completely at peace with each other.

Within 24 hours, (after joining together 5 or 6 times) I was able to enter her exactly like I did the first time with her having only slight pain for a moment or two, and then no pain at all as long as I remained perfectly still. She still had some slight pain or discomfort (a 1 or 2) if I moved at all inside her vagina. We had absolutely no agenda, and I made sure in advance that my beloved did not feel under any pressure to perform. I had assured her two or three times, (before we were married) that if we simply held each other in our arms for our entire honeymoon because she was not ready or able to make love yet, that it would be ok. That assurance helped her a lot. When we went home three days later, we were both very happy with the progress we had made together, and the confidence in our future happiness that we had both gained.

The second night of our honeymoon we again fell asleep joined together in the scissors position. After an hour or so, I woke up suddenly with her pulling violently away from me because of the very severe pain from a firm erection I had inside her. Later the next morning, as we talked more about what had happened, I had complete clarity that her severe vaginal pain was from her past, and was not from anything I had done in the moment. My penis was simply responding to her female polarity when it became erect in her vagina while we were both asleep. (I wasn't moving at all) At first she had a bit of trouble understanding what was going on, (generally it's much easier to focus on and blame whatever's going on in the moment) but she saw it more and more clearly that the pain was from her past as we talked and reasoned it out.

Our honeymoon consisted of four primary activities: lovemaking, taking nourishment, going for pleasant walks in the surrounding area as we talked about what we were experiencing and learning, and sleep whenever we wanted for however long or short we wanted. The first three days of our marriage was everything that both of us wanted and hoped it would be. The motel we stayed at was within 10 miles of home, nobody else knew where we were, and we were able to lock the world outside while we learned to make love to each other in a safe, comfortable, and very pleasant environment. It will also be very easy to return to the same motel and room on our anniversary if we choose.

After reading Diana Richardson's books we decided to always use the words "penis" and "vagina" when referring to our sex organs because we can say either of those words 100 times in a row without it sounding goofy. Once in a great while we will refer to my "wand of light" or her "sacred space", but most of the time we use "penis" or "vagina". Once in a while my beloved will say "the vagina" when referring to herself instead of "my vagina" and I'll reply with "Who's vagina are we talking about?", she'll correct herself and refer to "her vagina", and we'll have a good chuckle between us.

Before marriage, we had hours and hours of spooning with her legs resting on mine. It was pure bliss for both of us. We still enjoy spooning because we have so much positive history with it, but I did not really think much about spooning with intercourse because for the first 2 or 3 months virtually all my entries were soft. (and I thought - mistakenly - that rear entry while spooning was impossible, or next to impossible, without a firm erection).

One morning 2 or 3 months ago, I woke up with a partial or full erection, my beloved was lubricated from our earlier lovemaking, I asked her if we could join together, she placed "the little man with the helmet on" at her entrance, and with very little effort I was "in". I was (and still am) absolutely amazed at how easy it was (and is) for us to "plug in" this way. I've also been totally amazed by how much pleasure is possible for both of us without me having a full erection, and also how easy it is for my soft or semi-soft penis to slide around in her lubricated vagina.

We are both completely relaxed while spooning, and the sensations from our slow gentle movements and pauses are amazing. If one of us wakes at 4-4:30am, we will often turn toward and gently wake the other, and put our chests together for a short time to wake up our polarities, we'll fall asleep this way, I'll wake up with an erection, and then she'll turn back over on her other side, and we'll join together as spoons. On a few different mornings I have had just the very start of an erection, my beloved has placed the head of my penis right at her entrance, I made a little flick with my hips, and I was "in". While we are joined, I will often move my free hand slowly all over her body with feather-light touch and it really helps her energy to move freely all over her body. I know from previous experience that regular rear entry sex can very quickly lead to orgasm. When we spoon I do have to use more discipline to resist the old impulses to thrust, and more discipline and focus to keep moving my energy up frequently, in order to not get too close to orgasm -- but the benefits we both enjoy with this very satisfying position make it well worth any extra effort.

The pain and trauma that my beloved has stored in her body generally and especially in her vagina (much of it for decades) is now being released and healed by our gentle lovemaking. 30 years ago she spent a few hours of her honeymoon in the emergency room due to severe pain. (possibly semen allergy, or honeymoon cystitis, mixed with some deep fears she had of the unknown about sex) She spent the better part of two decades with a man who was often insensitive, ejaculated quickly, and fell off to sleep after he was done, while she went and sat in a tub of warm water to relieve her pain. To try to cope, she would stay late at work, do other things away from home, and let him have sex as infrequently as possible. She was on tamoxifen for two years which caused her severe vaginal dryness and irritation. She once had a medical device inserted in her vagina to take pictures of the walls of her vagina and she recalls clearly that the pain associated with that procedure was "off the chart". (level 10 or over) The medical assistant commented that that was not "normal" for her to be in that much pain, but didn't make any suggestion of where to seek help.

Before we met it was painful for her to even touch herself on any part of her vagina or labia. Bathing with warm water alone produced level 5 pain, and the pain was increased to level 6-8 with a quality hand-made soap. She remembered that at some point after we started spooning without intercourse (during our 2 year long courtship), her pain while bathing was reduced to level 3 pain with warm water alone, and the pain was increased to level 4-5 with a quality hand-made soap. A month or so before we married, she propped herself up-side-down against a wall and poured some walnut oil into her vagina because we planned to use
that as a lubricant on our honeymoon -- it felt very good to her and she had NO negative reaction. As her vaginal pain has lessened during lovemaking, it has likewise lessened during bathing when she touches her vagina and labia. She now has NO pain in bathing or lovemaking and lovemaking is more and more
pleasurable to her. And I am becoming more and more sensitive in my penis and I can often sense her mood and/or energy level from the vibrations I recieve from her vagina.

My beloved has told me that when we spoon, if I gently move once or twice, and then remain still, that she has bursts of energy from her vagina that travel all over her body. This is now happening to the lady who had faith in me and my tenderness 6 1/2 short months ago, and pushed through her level 5 pain so that together we could help each other, step by step, get to where we are today.

I have ejaculated 7 or 8 times since our wedding - none of them were intentional. We made love every day for 5 weeks before my first inadvertant ejaculation. I have only ejaculated twice inside my beloved's vagina. The first time she had NO noticable reaction, the second time she had a slight burning sensation in her vaginal area, and her focus and energy level that day was less than usual. So we are especially thankful for a knowledge of Karezza. I will share a few more comments and observations on ejaculation in a future post.

My darling wife, the woman who has been through all of the above, is the same woman who now frequently asks me for PIV and asks if I am going to bed with her so we can fall asleep joined together in the scissors position. It is always a pleasure to respond to her lovemaking requests. She just as eagerly responds to mine. We remain open in heart and mind to whatever the future holds for us on our karezza journey together.

Time is the surest method. Women often seem to need longer than men to feel back in balance (if they notice a connection at all), but members of both sexes have occasionally reported recovery times of up to 15 days. Some people feel the effects for a shorter time, of course. And most people have both good and bad days during the cycle.

Learn how long the return to balance takes you, and it will help you be less reactive. You may find that the more consistent you are with karezza, the less fallout you experience. On the other hand, some people feel like hangovers sometimes gets worse...or perhaps just more noticeable, because their sense of wellbeing is so much stronger that they really notice any ripples.

Forum members report their methods for minimizing neurochemical ripples after inadvertent ejaculation:

(blissed) After one or two of my ejaculations (in 6.5 months) I felt a touch off balance, but the rest of the times I didn't notice much of anything at all -- either physically or emotionally. And each time I've tried to be especially open to and aware of any symptoms at all that I might see.

I think the main reason for very few ripples of any duration is because, after each ejaculation, to whatever degree possible, I have worked (with my darling wife) toward immediately minimizing the effects.

For example, one of my ejaculations happened on a work day about an hour before the alarm was due to go off. I went and washed up, came right back to bed, and put my chest together with my beloved's chest for 20 to 30 minutes and I could feel my energy and emotions come back into balance enough that I had an uneventful day at work and happy evening at home. When I had another ejaculation on a weekend morning, I went in and washed up, came right back to bed, and joined together scissors with my beloved until I felt better. We made love again later that day, and again early the next morning, and within 24 hours of the ejaculation I felt absolutely 100% and on top of the world physically and emotionally.

I also take the best male nutritional supplement that I'm aware of, to minimize the work my body has to do to replace and assimilate the nutrients I've lost in the ejaculation.

I think my beloved's support and acceptance of my not trying to ejaculate is important. Her love, support, and acceptance in helping me to come back into balance after an ejaculation also seems to make a big difference for me.

I would be happy to go the rest of my life without an ejaculation. But if I inadvertantly have one, I will use the tools I have to minimize the damage and get back to balance.

I like the analogy of the fire extinguisher beside the cook stove -- you hope you never have to use it, but if you do, it's there to help minimize any potential damage.

(Curious fellow) When I have the occasional orgasm, a couple things seem to help minimize the hangover effects:

1. Just lie still and let the orgasm happen; don't try to intensify the sensations.

2. If I feel some irritation with my wife in the following days, blame it on the orgasm, not on my wife! Really, that seems to make a big difference.

What's the best way to cope with an orgasm hangover?

A forum member asked:

I'm wondering what men in particular but also couples do to stay mindful during the hangover phase, to accept it, move through it quicker, etc.

Replies:

1. Be kind and loving to yourself

2. It's a cycle. At these moments I welcome all parts of life:

• heat wave one month,
• cold and darkness on others,
• rainy grey another,
• sunshine and blue sky just another;
• not a goal

3. I just figure that this is my brain on crack. Not really on crack, just kidding, but my brain altered by a fog or filter that affects my judgment and thoughts although I might not be aware of it. Just knowing that this period of time my thinking and judgment is not to be relied upon, and that it will be okay in a week...that is enough for me to get through it pretty well.

But as a practical matter, the key is LOTS of naked cuddling and bonding. That really takes the edge off and can bring things back to what they were. I have amazing feelings for my partner and after my last ejaculation "accident" the feelings came right back in a few days rather than a week. I experienced some down time and flat feelings and a bit of disappointment but the cuddling and bonding did their thing as they always do. This is THE key to the whole issue, I think.

You may also wish to read this thread.

(clarity) You mentioned several months ago that one of the toughest times for you back then was at night, in bed, right before falling asleep. That was the hardest time for me at first, too. Then I started to just go with it, and go ahead and fantasize, but keep it calm. Sometimes basically a karezza fantasy, sometimes a full on energy circulation meditation. Now that it's been over a year, it's where my mind goes automatically. I don't have to try anymore, I can just relax and feel like I am indulging myself, yet I stay safely calm.

Forum members give condom advice:

• female condoms. They can be ordered here: http://www.undercovercondoms.com/

• condoms with "glue." The condom stays on even if the penis goes soft and then hard and then soft...https://www.amazon.com/Stays-Roll-Body-Adhesive/dp/B06XRHGQB2

(Rachel) My lover and I used the female condoms early in our relationship and I think they would work well for karezza~~we made inserting it part of the fun (I let him do it as he has really long fingers)~~you will probably laugh at first because they are so different, but they work well and no worries about whether you have an erection or not!

(Clarity) I like the female condoms a lot, too. I've never liked the way male condoms feel like a one way trip, like once you get started you've got to keep going.

(emerson)  Condoms are okay - even the male kind. If you have to use them, they're allright. They do require adjustments/worry and sometimes new installation of a fresh one now and then. There is a scale of arousal, from 0 to 10, with 10 being orgasm. Condoms only work if you are a 4,5,6 or higher...so you have to be hard and stay kinda hard.

(Daniel S)  I was seeking rather desperately for advice since no matter how "successfully" I seemed to be practicing Karezza, I was always feeling drained and weakened afterward. ... We have since started using a different brand of condom (we had previously always used the Durex brand) and I am no longer experiencing the tiredness I wrote about. This has been a very remarkable thing, after months of such unpleasant, debilitating symptoms.

(freedom) We’ve tried male and female condoms. We’ve also tried Trojan Natural Lamb. We’d rank the lambskin above the female condom. Although the female condom might be better for karezza in terms of erection strength not being as much of an issue, the lambskin ones feel better for both of us. The lambskin ones seem to allow for greater energy transfer. We find synthetic condoms feel like rubber bands, which can push us toward O territory. That doesn’t seem to happen with the lambskin based upon our early trials. You need to hold the lambskin condom on when you withdraw. NOTE: lambskin condoms do not protect against STDs.

Natural Lamb condoms aren’t cheap. The best deal we’ve tracked down is through Bed, Bath and Beyond if your local store carries the 10 pack and you use the abundant 20% off coupons.

While we’re on birth control topic, we also use a diaphragm with Contragel. Contragel isn’t available in the US, but you can order it from some places online. It’s cheapest in Germany if you live there or happen to be there. It’s lactic acid based and smells like cookies.

As for pregnancy caused by pre-cum, the risk is lower than you may think. This excerpt comes from a 2013 article entitled "Why Still So Few Use Condoms."

The truth is that the chance of pregnancy by pre-cum is so remote that it is a statistical nonfactor. Two separate studies conducted by the National Institutes of Health found no sperm in pre-ejaculate fluid, as did a study conducted by Connecticut State University in conjunction with Princeton University . The Department of Obstetrics and Gynecology at Rabin Medical Center in Petah Tikva, Israel also failed to find any trace of sperm in pre-ejaculate fluid, and the Kinsey Institute at Indiana University maintains that "pre-ejaculate rarely contains sperm." Despite the overwhelming evidence -- some of which is readily available at sources like WebMD -- some continue to propagate the myth, maybe because they believe the end justifies the means.

The Exchanges in Cupid can help get around the following challenge because they "pace" the transition. A Cupid reader reported:

This past weekend we just kind of lost it and spent 9 hours total making love, no orgasm, but lots of edging. It was awesome but left us both exhausted due to sleep deprivation. I felt jumpy and anxious, like having had too much coffee. So we cooled it down for the last couple of days. Then this morning we woke up and started getting heated, just some kissing, and breast touching/kissing. FIRE!!! It's crazy, we can't keep our hands off each other.

I don't like this! I feel extremely aroused and loving toward my wife, but jittery. There is defnitely sexual tension that is causing discomfort. My wife feels the same, as she has recently decided to join me to go to 30 days without O. But this morning she says to me that she wants me badly but we'd better set some boundaries like no hugging in bed, as that just opens the box. I completely agree with her. But I find this really frustrating. What is happening is that we're getting so charged up for each other that it seems the only way to control it is to keep our hands off each other. We can't lie down and kiss or that will lead to more. Can't hug in bed or that will lead to more. Probably can't even snuggle on the sofa as that will lead to more. I love snuggling and being close, but it seems so difficult to just do this without it leading to more. And I'm afraid that my wife will pull away and we will be less affectionate in order to gaurd against the raging fire that always seems to be smoldering. I'd love to engage in more bonding behaviors, but it seems like we can't do that without getting out of hand. Which leads to further feelings of neediness and longing because I'm not getting the affection I crave. And then the feelings of needing affection get blended in with the feelings of sexual desire.

If edging really does cause these feelings i would definately caution people against it, or at least to be aware of it and experiment with cause/effect. For me, I feel like it actually raises my anxiety and stress. Sure, it's exciting, but very taxing on the body and central nervous & immune systems and does not feel right.

Another guy answered:

(Marnia) Suggestion: Definitely don't avoid doing some bonding behavior before sleeping. Try one without kissing, such as

1. placing a soothing palm over each others genitals. This may increase arousal at first, but then things calm down leaving a nice glow, or
2. spooning with as much stillness as you can muster.

This jittery tension has been reported by others and it does seem to be related by going too close to The Edge for too long and then stopping. It will pass if you don't keep stoking the fires. You might try cold water (or a cold, wet towel) on the genitals if you overheat.

I was a prisoner of the PMO cycle, and I came across nofap when I started having ED problems in bed. To make things extra stressful, my wife and I were trying to have kids. Not having sex was not an option and I needed to change. When I began nofap, I struggled to just get it up with my wife, or maintain an erection long enough to orgasm...now, when my wife is ovulating, I have sex about just about every day for the entire week...those of you who have been in a relationship with the same woman for about 10 years know that's impressive. On top of everything, the sex is much more enjoyable for both of us.

Again, for more details on my journey, please ready my older posts and reports. Since this will be my last post, I want to give you guys a few tips that really helped me get to where I am:

1) Meditation - Set aside as little as 5 minutes a day (morning works best for me) to slow things down and find inner peace. Make sure you are meditating in a room where you will not be disturbed. Even if you are, it's not the ned of the world...just continue to relax. Focus on your breath and try to empty your mind of everything else. It may be difficult at first, but you will get better. I typically wake up 10-15 minutes before my wife to get in my daily meditation. If I have an opportunity to do meditate in the afternoon, it's a bonus. There is a good deal of information on the internet that can help you get into meditation.

2) Diet - Eating clean and healthy made a big difference for me. I focus on making raw, uncooked fruits, vegetables and nuts the main staple of my diet. I eat meat, but I try to consume very little throughout the week. I saw the biggest difference when I switched to a gluten-free diet. I know many people have no problems with gluten and if that's the case, eating cleaner will probably do you just fine. For me, cutting it out of my diet was HUGE. This change resulted in increased energy, greater focus and the loss of about 10 pounds in the first two weeks. It's a pain in the ass since you have to say no to bread, pasta and beer. Gluten is also in many processed foods, but it's worth it. Again, there's a ton of information on the internet about going gluten-free.

3) Sex Without Orgasm - I now practice Karezza with my wife. That means I have sex but I do not orgasm. You are essentially "edging" with your partner. A lot of men think this is crazy, but if you try it you will find it to be very satisfying. You gain an increased desire for your partner, have more energy (just think how you feel after you cum!) and just feel better about yourself. As I mentioned above, when my wife is ovulating, we have sex every day and in that period I am cumming every day. I am absolutely DRAINED after that week and need a few days to recuperate. This is essentially a Sexual Hack...use it to your advantage.

4) Read This Book - The Tao of Health, Sex, and Longevity by Daniel Reid. All that time you would have spent masturbating can be used to improve yourself and get a better understanding of your body. The book is not religious and more of a practical guide to improve your health, life and sex. It was written by a westerner for a western reader. Many of the things I read are techniques talked about on these discussion boards to help guys get their regain their libido and erection strength...meditation, breathing exercises, kegles, abstaining from fantasizing about sex/women, diet, semen retention, etc...are all covered and discussed at length.

I wish you all luck.

180 Day Report...My Last Report by KSunrise01

Apple founder Steve Jobs wanted to indulge in tantric sex in his garden shed, new book by his ex-girlfriend Chrisann Brennan claims

Before his rise to international acclaim the couple "shared nights of lovemaking so profound that, astonishingly, some fifteen years later, he called me out of the blue to thank me," she claimed.  Photo: GETTY IMAGES

Steve Jobs asked his first girlfriend to "make tantric love with him in his garden shed" after returning from a transformational visit to India in the 1970s, she has claimed.

Chrisann Brennan said in a new memoir that she enjoyed "profound" nights of passion with the late Apple founder during a relationship after they met at school in California.

However after a trip to India in 1974, he developed a sexist attitude and "started to reject the feminine aspect as inferior to the glorious masculine", she wrote.

"It all broke open between us when he asked if I would make tantric love with him in his garden shed," said Ms Brennan. She felt neither was spiritually prepared and "the only word I had was an emphatic 'no'".

In 'The Bite In The Apple', Ms Brennan, now a graphic designer living in Monterey, California, sheds new light on the life of the visionary billionaire who died from cancer in 2011 at the age of 56.

Before his rise to international acclaim the couple "shared nights of lovemaking so profound that, astonishingly, some fifteen years later, he called me out of the blue to thank me," she claimed.

However, she added that Jobs was so concerned about saving his "energy for work" and "conserving one's vital energies" that he typically preferred not to climax.

In extracts previously published in The New York Post, Brennan disclosed that Jobs believed he had served as a Second World War fighter pilot in a previous life.

He also encouraged her to engage in "primal screams" of "Mommy, Daddy, Mommy, Daddy" after they took the psychedelic drug LSD together, she wrote.

Brennan and Jobs were living together when he co-founded Apple from a garage in California.

However "as Apple grew, so did Steve's sense of self-entitlement; in parallel they both seemed to take on lives of their own," she wrote in her memoir.

He eventually ended the on-off five-year relationship when Brennan became pregnant with a daughter, Lisa, whose paternity he long denied.

After he acknowledged paternity years later, he forged a close relationship with his daughter and she lived with him as a teenager. He paid for her to attend Harvard university and she is now a magazine writer.

Jobs, who left an estimated fortune of $8 billion (£4.95 billion), married Laurene Powell in 1991. The couple had three children together.

Original article

"Karezza" is a term coined over a century ago, and several old books discuss it. It can be interesting and enlightening to read what others had to say about it, or similar practices. Click the "WISDOM tab at the top of the page and explore some of the links in the lefthand margin.

Here's one visitor's "Recommended Reading" list:

(thegentlevegan) Let me say briefly which books and articles about Karezza I have been reading that have been ultimately helpful for our experience:

(emerson) I know this is difficult, but it's a romantic fantasy that people are going to "get" this up front. However, once you practice this sex with them, even if they are not, the magic happens. This is my preferred recommendation these days. Open mindedness happens when you are the example. Expecting to find someone already into this is like impossible. But someone receptive...well that's different.
I was watching a show from the UK called Fleabag, episode 2, and it actually addresses Karezza and lovemaking versus "fucking"...first time I've seen someone in a show get this right and address the issue. Point is, though, that you first meet someone, then you have sex, and you don't orgasm, and they get intrigued, and things evolve. That's how I see it. Anything else is doomed.

The worst way to explain it to a man is to say "it's like sex but you don't have an orgasm." Who wants that???? I also don't like the "affectionate gentle intercourse" angle, as that never seemed appealing when I was on the dopamine train. But if you say "you prolong sex, have lots of sexual intercourse, and delay your ejaculation for a long time and sometimes don't even bother ejaculating so you are always ready...and you get this amazing sensitivity and pleasure throughout your whole body" that can sell guys. Or at least the right guys.

(sender) It's a paradigm shift which implies that some people won't understand it just by explaining it using words, no matter how hard you try. Words typically only mean something when they describe an experience that's similar to one we've already had. Karezza is not like any experience I had had before, so I would not have understood it from words alone. In fact, the only reason I was even interested in trying Karezza was as a solution to the problem of how to continue to have sex with my wife while successfully rebooting from porn. Even then, I thought the idea of sex minus the orgasm was nuts, but I was determined to be rid of porn and wasn't excited about the prospect of 3 months without any sexual connection, so I was willing to give it a try. So although I did try it (and have not looked back since), my reasons were still largely selfish at that time. I expected Karezza to be this technique I could use to get by for a few months while I was recovering from PIED. Imagine my surprise when we discovered it was so much more than that!

NEWSFLASH: "Slow Sex" Film is a good way to introduce a partner to the concept of karezza-style sex

Young man seeking a karezza partner explains karezza on video: NoFap For Women? - The Truth About Semen Retention

(Imnot - female) Last week I went out with a guy and I ended up talking to him about <em>Cupid's Poisoned Arrow</em> on the phone last night. He seemed smart and open-minded so I was comfortable talking about it. He was curious about it and ordered the book. The way I phrased it was that I tend to experiment with unconventional solutions, and this is the next experiment I want to do. That way I didn't have to sound like I was propositioning him, or delivering a premature ultimatum, especially since I'm not sure if there are serious feelings on either side.

If you write a profile on a dating site, it may help to say that you are coming out of an abusive relationship and you don't even want to think about sex for a while. But you may be interested in sex in the future, when the right guy comes along and you have had a chance to recover. That should discourage those who just want to have sex, without discouraging those who might actually be good long-term relationship material.

(Clarity) I have been on okcupid for a month or two and going on a lot of dates. I put a link to this site on my profile, partly to let potential dates know what they are in for, and partly to spread the word, even to people who aren't interested in me. I've gotten several messages from men just thanking me for letting them know about it. I've met several interesting men on there and am seeing a few of them. One in particular, though, is especially exciting to me right now. He is so intrigued by my sexual practice that he has stopped having orgasms. He's gotten through a week so far and seems really invested in giving this a real try. He's actually enjoying the build up of energy from quitting orgasm, not annoyed with it at all. And, like me, he is someone who loves sex and sensuality and savors the idea of hours and hours of slow, quiet breathing together.

One guy tried a Craigslist ad:

Have you come across the practice of Karezza? Karezza is a form of intercourse that emphasizes affection while staying far from the edge of orgasm. Climax is not the goal and ideally does not occur while making love for the man. [Actually, karezza's goal apply to both partners.]

Another Craigslist ad: Karezza (Montreal)

Corps : athletic Hauteur : 6'0" (182cm), age: 31

I am looking to explore a form of relationship called Karezza. Karezza is an ancient form of relationship union that is being revived by an author called Marnia Robinson in a book called Cupid's Poisoned Arrow. It's based on the idea that the typical way of sexual relationship leads to habituation between partners and inevitably leads to seperation due to our innate biological mating programs that steer us toward new partners. Karezza offers a different approach that focuses on bonding between lovers rather than overstimulation and orgasm.

Does anyone practice it? I am looking for a partner to explore with. A little about me,...

(Imnot - female) Last week I went out with a guy and I ended up talking to him about Cupid's Poisoned Arrow on the phone last night. He seemed smart and open-minded so I was comfortable talking about it. He was curious about it and ordered the book. The way I phrased it was that I tend to experiment with unconventional solutions, and this is the next experiment I want to do. That way I didn't have to sound like I was propositioning him, or delivering a premature ultimatum, especially since I'm not sure if there are serious feelings on either side. My perspective about men is somewhat different since I started this. My old reference points are less of a guide for me and I don't have such specific predictions about how things will play out (fall apart) according to the patterns I had noticed before. Before I felt like I had to find someone overwhelmingly compelling because whatever I felt for him at the beginning would be diminished as the relationship progressed. Now I feel like there are so many more options because I see how the initial chemistry is just a starting point. Things could develop and improve from there. Here's some of what I've learned:

• Communicate that karezza doesn't easily coexist with conventional sex, so he'll be motivated to find out what karezza entails.
• Have a book to loan him.
• Prolonging sexual tension is no fun when I'm not masturbating, it's uncomfortable. Making out soon is good because it soothes my tension, but the diverging point comes up pretty quickly and by that point I would want the guy to understand that I'm looking for a really different thing sexually.
• Richardson's book and Bass's book might be better for getting someone interested, while Marnia's book is better for showing why I made the decision. Focus on the positive aspects of karezza even though I based my decision on the negative aspects of conventional sex.

(Hanami99 - female) I would talk to my lover as we got close enough. I have to know him well. Then I will tell him that I need to trust that a man will hold me in his arms and gently make love to me with lots of kissing and eye contact. Only then can I give myself to him completely. My experience has been that a man is very moved by these words. If he can't maintain this kind of loving, I call it creative differences and move on.

You should speak from your own heart. I think when you can find your own words, this loving will be yours. You yourself have to be capable of letting someone love you only like this.

Men cut way back on the orgasms when they realize they're not tired and they can make love A LOT more.

(sender - male) Unfortunately, it might be [extremely] hard to find a guy who's already on this path. I've been in a men's group for almost 20 years; these are guys who work on themselves at a deep level, and I wasn't able to convince a single one of them to try it with their women. Some of them are aware of Taoist sexual practices (like Mantak Chia). Not even my testimonials regarding the amazing benefits in my own marriage was sufficient to persuade them. Not one of them is happy with their marriage, and yet they aren't willing to change this one simple thing for a few weeks just to see if it might in fact be the missing "secret sauce". Without exception, they all say, "no, it's not that, it's all these other things that are her fault...". Fascinating. That can only mean one thing: orgasm-attachment is strong.

I must admit, when I first read about Karezza (in the context of rebooting from porn addiction), I thought the whole idea was crazy. I only tried it because I wanted to recover from porn addiction and my ED symptoms caused by it without giving up sex with my wife. Karezza was the way to do that; otherwise, I might never have tried it. It's a significant paradigm shift, which means it can't be understood intellectually - you have to see it for yourself from experience. But it's really hard to persuade someone to try it without already having had the experience...so it's a chicken and egg problem.

Maybe instead of focusing so much on the man's orgasmic behavior, you could try to focus instead on the downstream effects you're looking to cultivate (e.g. feeling connected, loving, sustainable sexual energy, etc.) and only after you are both invested in the relationship, then you begin to explain about the Coolidge Effect, CPA, etc.

(strawberry field - Female) - [Writing about what felt like transformational sex with her boyfriend who has been inconsistent in his enthusiasm for karezza) What was different?
First of all I was in a completely self-assured mood, I was very sure about my leadership-qualities and therefore lead him without forcing or urging anything. In general it felt like it wasn´t my conscious will that lead us both - it was more like following my intuition. Something inside of me just knew what would be our next step and I let it guide him as well as me. I did not have much to do, I kept my focus at present, I relaxed and enjoyed. Like Osho says somewhere: The sex just happened.

Also my boyfriends appearance seemed very "real"...I focused on him, so I could be together with him for real and it worked. In general, everything seemed very real as if I was closer to reality...sometimes it was so close that it seemed to go into reverse and even felt unreal...very much reality seems unreal, well, that´s interesting, lol.

One moment I had to calm him down but I felt quite comfortable with telling him to slow down. I just told him I wanted to enjoy the slow sex a little longer and that I could feel him more intensive inside me when he goes slow. There was nothing hidden going on with that simple request, no fear of being rejected or demanding too much or anything, it was just the direct expression of a true wish. And because (I guess it´s because) it came directly from me to him without using any detours (manipulation, forcing etc) it must have been easy for him to meet my desire. So we had a wonderful time prolonged.

There were new ideas of sex-positions and how to be caressive appearing "out of nowhere" during intercourse, I guess because of the high level of intuition. But most impressive was that I felt so very self-assured...I wouldn´t say without doubts but there were not many of them. No stupid questions in my mind like "is it right this way or should I do it that way...what if he didn´t like it...what if it´s not enough karezza-style...blah..."
It´great to be without stupid questions during intercourse! The following intercourses were similar to this experience, so I was happy it wasn´t only a moment of joy but could have the meaning that a real transformation is going on. I am not expecting too much but will try to lead him as I did. I think I might have learned the difference between leading and forcing...maybe I have claimed this a few times before, but this time it´s not coming from my head but from my soul...I´ve experienced it directly through my body and didn´t just deduce it with my rationality. I guess experience is the only way to understand truly what good slow sex means but we discuss it anyway...which is good because one gets more and more a feel for the whole idea...so I share it.

Discussing sex is mostly not very helpful, it´s exhausting and often annoying - so if you have other opportunities you should use them. Let things work at another level. I think training intuition is helpful in that matter.

(Darryl) If I were to give fellow men advice around introducing karezza to a new lover, it would be this. First and foremost, do it for yourself. Make it your direction, your commitment to you. I'd do it by example. I can easily see how a woman could look at karezza as one more hare-brained male idea. Don't get me wrong, I would definitely and enthusiastically share with your new woman the virtues of non-orgasmic lovemaking. Give her the book and a link to this web site, and then drop it, unless she asks you for more. Believe me, your "doing by example" will mean way more to her than anything you say.

The way I handled not orgasming, was simply to say "stop" or "slow down" when I was too close to the edge. Sometimes I would just signal with my hands on her hips. The key is that your girl honors your wishes not to orgasm, and will stop when you need it. It's to her benefit, as you can go on much longer, are almost always ready for her, and your sexual sensitivity increase, all good things for the woman. Also, the more you don't orgasm the easier it gets not to.

Now if you just happen to meet a woman who gets right on board with you, then you'll know you're one lucky man. If not, let patience be your way. I strongly believe that karezza style lovemaking is naturally the feminine way, in the feminine flow, and she will respond. You just may need to enlist her support around the "stop" thing in the beginning. You could tell her it's something that's important to you and that her satisfaction is just as important as well, so, "Let's work together." If I had to do it all over again knowing what I know now, I'd do it basically the same way - with the addition of sharing the karezza information and sources to read. To be quite honest she'd follow me anyway.

Wouldn't it be great to start a new relationship DEMONSTRATING that your direction is sound? (advice to another guy) I remember when I first slept with the woman who would become my wife. We just cuddled together naked for at least two or three nights before we had intercourse. This was quite unusual for me, with previous girl friends, when the clothes came off we had sex. I think it really set the tone for our future together. I had actually forgotten we had done this together until a year ago, many years after we were engaging in karezza sex. You may want to try some bonding behavior like this the first time you're naked together. You could say something like, "Lets just hold each other. I want to really feel who you are this time." When you do engage sexually you could say, "I really like to go slow so I can drink in your feminine beauty." That will really get her attention. If she starts to speed it up, say,"Slow down I want to savor you," and then wrap you arms around her firmly.

Believe me, you can set the tone. Find me a woman who doesn't want to be savored and have her feminine beauty adored. Once she gets the sense of how you behave with her then you can introduce the concept of karezza. Actions always speak louder than words and a conversation about karezza can scare a potiential partner. Show her first with your body. It also shows her you're a man with a direction and purpose. Women love male clarity when it comes from the heart. Make a commitment to your journey and you will find a woman who will share your vision.

In my opinion your challenge is to be able to stay cool during lovemaking with a new woman when you haven't had any karezza practice with a partner. You may want to consider some solo sexual cultivation to get at least some feel of sexual arousal that doesn't lead to orgasm. It will help to retrain your brain a little bit, showing you that sexual arousal doesn't alway have to end in orgasm.

(To a woman) If I were a woman looking for a guy who would be open to non-orgasmic lovemaking I'd want two qualities. First, that he demonstrates, in some way, his capacity for direction in his life. Making the choice to give up orgasming, and then following through with it, is no easy task for a guy. He'll have to be determined to do it, and at its core it will have to be his decision for himself first. If he does it just for you it won't ring true. Second, he'll need to show he's open to feminine wisdom. Male direction is great, but without feminine wisdom a guy is only partially on track. Feminine wisdom brings depth and fullness to a guy's direction. A number of major things in our lives were instigated by my wife. The funny part was that I thought some of them were my idea's until she pointed that they were hers, and that I implemented them. How deflating!! Somehow I forgot that part.

If you explain karezza to your potential partner and he says, "Tell me more" you probably have a keeper. It says he's open to you and your feminine perspective. If he immediately contracts, and gives you an "I don't know" look or answer, then you may have an uphill battle on your hands.

From being a guy and knowing them pretty well, I can say that giving up orgasm is one tough sell for the male psyche. So you might want to ask him to think on it and give him some information to read, like the Wisdom page on this website. If, when you see him again, after he's had some time to chew on it, and he's still locked down about it, I would move on. Do you really want a guy who, right from the beginning, can't hold space for what's important to you? Look for the guy who says, "Tell me more." He's your man. You mention something about a guy who may practice karezza with you but isn't a good fit, and wondering how it might end. I think it would end because it wasn't a good fit. I don't believe karezza would save a relationship that's not a good match but I do believe karezza can bring harmony to one that is solid but floundering.

(Telepathy) I mention karezza in my OKCupid profile. And I am a man. As someone interested in karezza I would be overjoyed to find another person interested in it. Karezza obviously shows a high level of seriousness in a person. That is what I am seeking, and the only thing I will accept. If someone is too immature to speak about (or contemplate) non-orgasmic sex they are probably not a suitable partner for me. Isn't it strange that we supposedly live in a sexually liberated culture, but we feel we can't even talk about sex openly with the person we will be having it with beforehand?

(lucky) Speaking from my experience, my partner brought up karezza very early on when I initially broached the topic of sexuality. I had never heard of it before, but I was very intrigued by the practice and the fact that he had a different view on sex made him all the more interesting to me.

(Rachel) (Advice to forum member) I understand how hard it is for your lover to understand why you don't want to have orgasmic sex anymore. Men can get very attached to seeing their women orgasm, as can women when it comes to a man's ejaculation. However, in the end, it is *your* body, and you have the final word as to what you do with it. No one can make you have an orgasm. (I know it *feels* like someone can make you have one, but in reality, it's your own mind that leads you to it) So if you want to try making love without it, then that is entirely up to you. It's hard mental work if someone insists on trying to make you have one--so you might need to have a discussion about that. But on the other hand, it's also *his* body, and if he wishes to have an orgasm, that is his prerogative. I don't see karezza as an "all or nothing" situation.

The beauty of karezza is the *way* you make love. It allows you to open up to him sexually as never before. As you continue to get greater and greater satisfaction through lovemaking, the more you will want to do it. Where it becomes a partnership is when you are able to trust him enough to open up to him fully (physically and through your heart), and he is trustworthy enough to go slow and not hurt you by bruising your cervix. Once he has been invited into your deepest space, he won't want to have the door closed on him again. The tricky part is finding out whether he would like to try to make love this way. Once he has given it an extended try, I think he will really start to love it (but no guarantees! I don't think everyone is at a point where they are ready for it). In my own relationship, I would rather not have orgasms. I get sad and a bit off-kilter when I have them.

But sometimes, after many hours and days of making slow love, my beloved consciously decides to have one at the end of our time together. That his choice. Because he doesn't seem to suffer after-effects, it's something he might do occasionally. (I have yet to ever feel that he withdraws from me emotionally, etc., but perhaps that is because we have spent so much time in closeness of our souls and hearts.) His orgasm does not negate the beauty of our lovemaking or our time together! I was also in a marriage for 22 years~~and one of the first things I promised myself after my divorce is that I would never again try to be someone I'm not just to please another person. So if that means I want to be an orgasm-shunning woman, then so be it! And if my lover decides he'd rather be with someone to whom he can give orgasms, then so be it, too! But I think he's pretty much forgotten about the whole "make her cum" thing, lol, thank goodness!

(Marnia) My thought, for what it's worth, is that there's no "right" way. Trust your intuition. Some people click with the science; some with the ancient wisdom; some with your own story, etc. No one clicks with having the information shoved down their throats. If people are meant to hear this, they often give you an opening that makes it clear what approach would work best. For example, they may say they are discouraged about relationships. Well...that's your cue to tune up about why you're now feeling more optimistic, and that you're looking forward to testing this "crazy theory" for yourself someday. Or they may say something about why humans can't be monogamous...and you share about the Coolidge Effect and bonding behaviors, etc. Or they may mention tantra, and you talk about some of the other traditions that have made similar discoveries. Or they may mention past relationship troubles, and you could ask if they ever noticed things started going of course after the "honeymoon stage" --even if they had a good physical relationship. Or if they started to drive each other crazy. If they say "yes," you can mention that you just started reading a good book about that and it talks about the biology of relationships. If they're curious, lend them the book. One person suggested testing how open a perspective partner might be by talking about yoga, chi energy, chinese medicine, etc. and gauging the reaction. A male friend says he has taught karezza to a new lover with his body alone:

When I engage I keep it slow. I make sure I don't orgasm. If she wants to, that's her business, I don't preach. Because I've been being non-orgasmic for a long time, it's not difficult to manage my own arousal, even with someone who focuses on stimulation and orgasm. It's not that hard to keep a partner in the middle zone when you know what you're doing. I would say I put out an energy of, "I'm not going where you're going, but if you like, you're more than welcome to come over here where I am." If I need to slow someone down, I'll do it with a word or two, or with my body. At some point you see something dawning on the other person. A sort of, "Hey, what’s going on here? This is different, and mmm...kind of nice. I think I like this." It’s such a sweet way to introduce karezza to someone. You'd be surprised how positive the response usually is. I look at it as a kind of gift I'm giving. Normally a person would have to be introduced to the concept somewhere, wrap their mind around it, and then stumble along with their partner as they try to get the hang of it through trial and error. Because of my experience, my partner gets to jump into the middle of the experience and get a real taste of what it's all about. I love the sharing that happens. I remember a lovely friend saying, "You can go now" (meaning, "have your orgasm"), after engaging for quite some time, definitely longer than she was used to. I said, " I don't do that." You could see the wheels spinning in her head as she digested the experience. The next time she was all over it, wanting more, and ended up getting so behind the idea that she had a conversation with her teenage son telling him this was the way to make love when he began being sexual. You would think that someone practicing karezza would get pulled into the hot conventional style sex by the other person but it’s by far the other way around. If you're confident, they can feel you're on to something, and they usually lean into it. Now, of course, if they're really going to move into non-orgasmic lovemaking they will still have to go through the rewiring process but they have a tangible personal experience to relate to

Young woman attempts to explain the concept of karezza to some unruly DJs.

[Marnia to a man wondering about discussing it with a prospective partner]The problem of "enlightening" a partner is a tricky one, especially today because hopping into bed for sex seems such an Obviously Right Idea. If she reads English, you could tell her about the bizarre book you read by an American woman and ask her what she thinks of it...just as a way of gauging her response. Who knows? She may like the idea. And if she hates it, then that will be useful information, too. I do not recommend trying to explain the ideas to her yourself. These ideas don't make sense to ANYone at their first hearing. There's a lot of natural resistance, and it gets projected onto the person talking about them. Better she project it onto me than you! Also, a book takes a slower, more redundant (at least in the case of my book) approach, so people have time to allow their resistance to arise and have their questions addressed.

When we got together, my husband said something that I think you guys can use in this situation. It was something like, "I don't mind taking a slow approach because I've noticed that when I rushed my relationships (sexually speaking), they tended to be short and end badly. I hope this relationship will last." Those weren't his exact words, but those were the key concepts. The challenge from the woman's perspective is that if you aren't trying to jump on her, she doubts her attractiveness. By letting her know you hope the relationship will bloom, she can relax because she knows you find her attractive. That said, women who are hooked on vibrators or porn, are gonna be like guys hooked on porn/masturbation...very needy and insistent and very unable to think in terms of the big picture. So if she's not ready, don't blame yourself!

(Anonymous woman) [She decided to move to sex without orgasm, but her partner wasn't on board]

Thought I'd share our most recent experience... As usual, I've been "avoiding" (enjoying the lack of!) orgasm, but B has not (at least not entirely- he "indulges" about once a week). Since we got together, I noticed he was struggling with drinking more and he started to smoke again (he had quit for a full year). I decided to let him bring me to climax last week - to observe the results myself. Wow, was I amazed at the extreme emotional upheaval that followed within a few days! The first day I started to feel a bit "distant" and detached from him. Within three days I was a raging bitch, and moved back into my own place for two nights! I honestly thought and felt it was the end for us! Thank goodness, I began to calm down, and reached for "the book" (your book, of course, no bibles ) I've read parts of it at least two or three times now. I started with the science, then backtracked to the intro and stories. It really took repeated readings and my own experience to fully connect with the consequences of fertilization sex. You are right - achieving a good experience with "karezza" and then comparing that again with "traditional" sex provides the contrast needed to really "get" it! Lucky for me, B is a patient, forgiving, and understanding guy! He's rereading the book as well, and is in on it 100 percent with me now ( I guess one bad experience with "bitchy" me is enough to turn any man!!) He's already calmer, not smoking, and not drinking. I'm very hopeful that he will be able to become a light social drinker eventually, like I am, so we can enjoy a glass of wine with dinner, etc. Honestly - this stuff is so critical to relationship health, personal health, and perhaps even the future of our planet! Anything I can do to help get this into other people's hands I will do!

A cool thing that happened was we went for a walk down to this wonderful spot right behind his house where we could sit on a stone wall and look into the creek. We never did that when we were so busy in bed. It felt very young and innocent and romantic. He kept confusing "sex" and "orgasm" as we talked, and I kept having to reseparate them. He asked me some clarifying questions "So, you want to have sex, but not with orgasms?""Right.""Have you ever done that before?""Not in a long, long time.""I've done that a lot. That's the best kind of sex.""Right, yes." And (ding! ding! ding!) I realized that both of us had been thinking in the backs of our heads that the orgasmic fucking was a phase we needed to get past so we could get to the good stuff eventually. Pretty amazing realization, and really the insight of the evening for me. Of everything I told him, the thing that really seemed to make the most sense to him was the idea of the mating program and the bonding program. I explained the concept and he practically shouted "God! That's so true!" He has struggled with addictions enough and learned enough about brain chemistry that when I made a dopamine vs oxytocin distinction he was right on board immediately.

So we had a truly epic hug, the kind of hug I always wish a hug could be. Snuggly and endless, with sighing and giggling and gentle squeezes and lots and lots of stillness. A few sweet kisses, some more hugs, and good night. We are so far off the script now neither of us seemed to really know our lines anymore. But that feels like freedom. I don't want to leave this with the impression that I converted him or that we are on the same page at this point. Our conversation was punctuated by his adamant refusal to ever consider giving up orgasm himself. I presented the whole thing as a personal decision on my part and didn't try to suggest he alter his behavior in any way. Turns out he only masturbates every week or two anyway when he doesn't have a lover. I could see the wheels spinning though and I did suggest that he reconsider some of his previous relationships in this light. When we were seeing each other, he told me a lot about his relationship woes. He did say "well, sex was always the sticking point. It's always caused the most arguments, but usually because they DIDN'T want to have sex and I was so frustrated."

There was a particularly poignant moment as he was pondering his previous relationships and then came back to the reality that I wasn't going to have orgasmic sex with him and he looked deflated and said "I just never can win." Awww. I really felt bad for him in that moment. Here's this woman he wanted for years, reconnecting, having a wonderful, romantic evening and she's given up orgasm altogether? What the hell? Poor guy. And (second ex lover to do this) he teased me that there was no way that I could possibly ever have sex without having orgasms anyway. His philosophy on the whole thing, which I very much appreciate, was "But I'm still alive!!!" By which he meant that life is always a struggle, we always feel pulled along by our dopamine and that you can't get off the ride until you die. And a wild ride it is. Feeling insatiable is feeling alive, because if you were satisfied, you might as well be done with it all. When I said I felt totally crazy when we were dating and that my perception of reality was altered, he said "that's part of the fun!" He said only boring people get bored and that love and sex without orgasm sounded boring to him.

I told him I wanted to live the oxytocin propelled life instead of the dopamine life for a while and see what I think. His attempts to negotiate out of this deadlock were pretty hilarious. "Ok, so what about couldn't you have that relationship you want with all the hours of tantric energy exchange and everything and then just every few months or so just go at it and do some serious fucking?" I laughed. "I think you probably just described my future. I don't know. I'm new to this, it's really an experiment at this point. We'll see." So yeah. It was great to talk to someone who was neither a fellow convert nor completely dismissive. He really engaged the ideas and gave me fresh insight. I had been looking forward to healing our friendship for a while, but I'm glad I didn't see him until now. With my new perspective, we were able to really connect in a more profound way. So, even though we kept our clothes on this time, I left his house feeling a stronger, deeper, more lucid and honest affection for him than I ever did when we were fucking. All in all, a lovely evening.

(Suggestion by a man to a woman who wants her boyfriend to try karezza) I would say "I'm not going to come for awhile. I'd like to explore my sexual nature without having an orgasm." And you proceed from that point of view. Slow him down if you feel he is getting to intense for you applying clitoral stimulation or whatever that is putting you over the edge, and abstain from having him give you oral, and you can proceed to explore this.

I know it sounds weird. But really, it will be much easier for him to jump aboard on his own, once you are doing your thing. A man will take a woman's lead here after a bit, it won't take much. Just to try things out for a few weeks.

• This guy tries to explain to men...

(westgate - male) Bonding behaviours and non-orgasmic sex discussions during dating I have brought this up with a couple of girls who i felt were interested in me, but had only just met me. heh heh. Great way to come across as weird. Most people find these topics awkward and weird when some potential date/fling/prospect brings it up soon after getting going. I think you have to establish an emotional bank balance with them first (get connected at least a little with other topics). It's funny how you are experienced as 'weird' to talk about this stuff straight away, but I'm sure if we played out the old mating game of attraction, we would be able to have sex far sooner than we'd be comfortable talking about it. That insistent old mating brain... On the other hand, I brought these ideas up with girls I had known for some time at work. The response here was very good. I find many people are fascinated by these ideas. I also find it's a great way to sort out who has depth of feeling and sensitivity and who is shallower. SUMMARY: Karezza is a great topic for conversation, provided someone is comfortable with you already.

(tattvamasi - male) So I have profiles on a few different internet personals sites. One of those sites is Okcupid. It's kind of a social network and online dating site rolled into one- there are some people on there looking for friends, while others are looking for more intimate connections. So there are various sections users can fill out on their profiles, one of which is "Most private thing I'm willing to admit." Here's what mine says: "I don't believe in orgasm. Shocking, I know! This realization came after much research that ended up dovetailing very nicely with things my own intuition has told me for quite some time. Confused? Angered? Intrigued? I'm happy to discuss..." I was editing my profile like a week ago and decided to just lay that out there to see what happened. To my pleasant surprise, I'm piquing the curiosity of many women. The general reaction is kind of like, "A man... a person with a penis... saying he doesn't believe in orgasm?!?!? Wow, I gotta find out what this is all about!" I actually exchanged a couple of really great e-mails with a woman recently. She was curious about why I choose not to orgasm, so I gave her a very rough outline (I probably didn't do it justice!) of the ideas in Marnia's book. Here's what she said in response: "It makes sense. I often think that the whole act can be boring and a chore if the goal is ultimately an orgasm and not to be close to one another. Its hard to find a man these days who has a deeper understanding on sex, and well, relationships in general. I think its partly that I keep meeting boring jerky men who have no desire for depth or a purpose driven life. Im going to check that book out too. Thanks :)" Then, a couple messages later she said: "It really does sound like an amazing experience. I grew up in a very spiritual household and have these deep engrained beliefs that sex is spirtual and not just physical satisfaction. But in my life so far have not had that experience. I imagine you have to be with a partner you love and care for. it sounds like there is such an intimacy to it. A lot of people would probably shy away from that kind of deep human connection." We ended up meeting for coffee the other day, and it was nothing short of magical. The conversation rolled right along for an hour and a half before she ended up having to go back to work. It almost seemed that we finished each other's sentences at times. There were plenty of synchronicities throughout the conversation as well. It was almost like the Universe was like, "See! Don't be shy about your beliefs! Shout it from the rooftops and you'll attract amazing people into your life!" There were things that she was saying and ideas she was expressing that I have been reading about in a book (The book is called "Anastasia"- book I of the Ringing Cedar series... check it out!) over the past couple of days. These were some pretty unconventional ideas, so the fact that she was talking about them... it was like she was reading my thoughts! We talked about how children are Art, the ultimate expression of creation... and right as we were talking about this, a woman pushing a stroller stopped right in front of our table. We looked down at this beautiful baby inside, then looked at each other in an amused kind of awe. What a great date it was. We have plans to go out again soon, and I'm greatly looking forward to it. So I guess what I'm trying to express, wonderful karezza community, is don't be shy about this amazing concept. I simply put it out there with a kind of "take it or leave it" mentality. Some women message me and are very curious about it, others don't mention it. It seems to be a nice balance between being completely quiet about karezza and trying to push it on people. If you let them meet you halfway, then the door to dialogue is open.

(intriqued - male) I met her through a mutual friend a few weeks ago. After a great evening together she asked to come back to my place. It was really awkward timing. I had just said my good byes to my girlfriend (a fantastic relationship (love on both sides, but riddled and ultimately ruined by my ED issues) a few days before and had just started my reboot (day 3). I said she could, but I explained that I couldn't do anything that night. I wasn't really presuming anything but just wanted to be honest and lay my cards on the table. So we spent the night caressing, feeling, touching, kissing, laughing, talking, and getting to know each other's bodies. It must of gone on for hours. Our clothes stayed on (underwear) throughout. I guess this was a non-conscious attempt at Karezza. Knowing that sex was off the cards made things really relaxed. I am not sure I would of suggested this kind of 'sex' myself, had it not been for my reboot, but I actually got a lot out of the no-O evening together. Later that night she caught me off guard by telling me she hadn't had sex for 6 months. She said she came to the realisation that casual sex wasn't improving her life and so decided to make the rule to only have sex with someone she had true feelings for. Like myself she was trying to change her relationship towards sex. I should give her a copy of Cupid's Poisoned Arrow. The next time we met (12 days into reboot) we had a great day together (museums, gigs, walking), and again ended up in bed together. Again we took things slowly. She said she felt odd, and at one point left the room saying she had to have a moment to herself to think things through. She apologised when she came back in. I told her not to worry. She said she wasn't going to have sex with me that night; fine by me We spent a lot of time together (kissing, touching, cuddling) before 'escalating'. I completely lost track of time. I really couldn't tell you if it was 30 minutes or 2 hours. I seem to have started enjoying these more natural encounters. Seeing where things go rather than trying to force things. It's not my normal language but it felt a little spiritual. Revelling in another's touch, moving, anticipating, sensing each other. Relaxed and getting turned on without any sense of performing.

===========================

(Another male) After limited success with different types of dating, I've just gotten more and more direct over time. Finally, I got to the point of being completely direct on an online advert, I wrote something like, "If the theory is that you can find whatever you're looking for online, I'm looking for a friend to spend time with; kiss, touch, give physical affection to. Nothing skeevy. I'm normal and sane. Oxytocin is good for you." Now I just have to figure out a system of sorting through all the women who replied.

(recreatingone) I just met someone in the fall of last year and it's still fresh how I introduced it to her. I was doing internet dating and i posted something about karezza on the site and in my profile. Once we met and started chatting back and forth it became a question of curiosity. I was able to explain that i was looking for a partner who was open to karezza because i have learned some interesting things. She took the bait and and asked me "like what?" i went to tell her that i have learned that at least some people can be prone to changes in the brain after orgasm that lead to feelings of depletion, neediness and things that would cause fighting amongst partners. She was fascinated by this and now I know why. From there we have had episodes of being successful with Karezza and lately not so much. When things were being held to the karezza way of sexual interaction there was a lot more harmony in our relationship. We found that penetration from me being on my side and her on her back was more intimate and less sexually dominating or stimulating. From there if we kept to that all things were good. The problem i think we got into is that we learned how to "edge" and then it became like an experiment to try different positions and see if we could "edge" but not orgasm. I can tell you now from experiences that this game of too much edging gets us in trouble and one of us winds up orgasming. So we are now in a reboot and trying to save ourselves because too much edging and leads to orgasm and then right back to the cycle again. Now there have been times when I spontaneously orgasmed by just floating inside of her and not trying an vigorous movements and then we did not seem to have the "fallout". I guess the love hormones saved us. So if you are having "casual sex" with a partner that you may not be with again, then first of all, it won't matter if she thinks you're weird right? Second, if you think the two of you will be back making love again, then why not start out on the right foot and tell her something interesting your exploring and see if she takes the bait.

(sood) Http://www.reuniting.info/blogs/curiousfellow/cuddle-sutra The drawings are simple but, I think, sexy: and that's with clothes on. If your bloke doesn't seem too keen on a prolonged diet of either the Exchanges or cuddling, it seems to me, if you're willing, you could take turns to make love each other's way. He can't force you to have an orgasm if you'd rather not, and you can't force him not to have one if he wants to; but you could both agree to make love slowly, one day, in the way you want, and faster, the next time, as he prefers.

We found knowing we would do what we most wanted, next time, made doing now, what we wanted less, much easier. It also enabled suprising, and effortless, changes to take place in what we prioritised. Scheduled lovemaking was great fun, and took all the pressure off.

[Excerpt from SEX in the Subtle Realms of Infinity (in press)]

PAIN DURING SEX

It is unknown how many women suffer from painful sex but are too embarrassed to admit it. Debby Herbenick Ph.D., M.P.H. reports in an article for Psychology Today that about 30% of all women ages 18 to 59 reported some difficulty with pain the last time that they had sex and that about 10% of women experience chronic genital pain.

The “Sex In America” survey estimates that sexual pain afflicts 20 percent of American women—15 percent before menopausal, 33 percent after. Other research estimates are as high as 40% of women suffering pain at some point for varying durations. The American College of Gynecologists and Obstetricians report 75% of all women will experience pain during or right after sexual intercourse.

Until recently, many doctors dismissed women’s genital pain as “neurotic,” which left them doubly wounded. Some men don’t believe the complaints of sexual pain. Some even very mistakenly assume that sex should hurt women.

Search “painful sex” and you will find these words:

Dyspareunia (dis-puh-ROO-nee-uh), defined as persistent or recurrent burning pain or aching genital pain that occurs just before, during or after intercourse with every penetration, including putting in a tampon. Throbbing pain which can last for hours after intercourse. The cause is unknown.

Vaginismus, (vag-in-ISS-mus) sometimes called vaginism, is a condition that affects a woman's ability to engage in vaginal penetration, including sexual intercourse, manual penetration, insertion of tampons or menstrual cups, and the penetration involved in gynecological examinations. This is the result of an involuntary vaginal muscle spasm, which makes any kind of vaginal penetration painful or impossible. A woman with vaginismus does not consciously control the spasm. The severity of vaginismus, as well as the pain during penetration varies from woman to woman.

Vulvodynia (vul-voe-DIN-e-uh) is chronic pain or discomfort around the opening of the vagina (vulva) for which there's no identifiable cause and which lasts at least three months. The pain, burning or irritation associated with vulvodynia can make a woman so uncomfortable that sitting for long periods or having sex becomes unthinkable. The condition can last for months to years. Treatment can help, but this condition can't be cured.

I searched for treatments on Google, this is what I found:

Treatments include anaesthesia, then medication injected into the vagina to inhibit the muscle spasm and then a massage followed by inserting a large dilator.

Another method utilises a CO2 laser with a vaginal probe, delivering laser energy pulses for a few minutes.

A different method also with a laser probe is placed directly on the painful points penetrating into the tissue to initiate a process called photo-biostimulation. The exact mechanisms of action are still not fully understood.

Other suggestions I found on the internet include:

Desensitisation therapy by learning vaginal relaxation exercises.

Sex therapy to explore negative emotional response to sexual stimulation and help to improve communication with your partner and restoring sexual intimacy.

Cognitive behavioral therapy to help change negative thought patterns.

Changing positions, talking more with the partner, longer foreplay, more lubrication.

If all that fails, try the FDA approved drug ospemifene (Osphena) which acts like estrogen though it might cause hot flashes, and it carries a risk of stroke, blood clots and cancer of the lining of the uterus.

I did not inquire into the costs of these treatments.


COULD KAREZZA HELP?

Could karezza help with this condition? I have not yet found research to say yes or no. But since it is a topic very related to sex I will share with you a story of how this malady was vanquished for someone. I am not a doctor and do not offer medical advice, I am just sharing someone’s experience and how the chronic pain fully subsided and the spastic muscles relaxed totally, literally overnight.

“I was afflicted with a strange condition that puzzled and shamed me. To be direct, my vagina suddenly, literally overnight, closed tight. Any attempt to touch or enter caused a burning sensation like the touch of a lit cigarette. Five different doctors had vague explanations about getting older and loss of hormones and suggested use of a lubricant or offered to prescribe pharmaceutical hormones.

My husband and I had enjoyed a very dynamic and compatible sexual relating and suddenly had to find other ways to engage sexually. I lost interest pretty quickly as sex was only painful and humiliating. It was sad and discouraging for us both. We were already suffering in our relationship and with the fun part now gone, tensions increased.

My self-esteem was plummeting. Unconscious beliefs surfaced, like, “What was my value if I could not offer sex?” That was a dismal revelation and it was a very deep program to deal with.

Eventually we each followed our divergent paths and went separate ways. I wondered if the malady was simply my body rejecting my husband. I assumed this and hoped it would pass.

When I was struggling with “Dyspareunia/Vaginismus/Vulvodynia” I felt embarrassed to talk about it. Just saying the words evoked a shudder. But one day a young woman in her late twenties confessed to me that she had always experienced much pain during sex and she and her boyfriend rarely made love because of it. I was touched by her transparency and vulnerability and felt to share my own experience with her. Neither of us could offer any solutions and both of us had done plenty of research.

Years went by during which I had been totally celibate. The universe put me onto a different kind of path. I was solo, a wanderer, an explorer of inner and outer realms. I deeply immersed into the world of fasting, pranic living, silence and celibacy.

Ten years after the sudden vaginal affliction descended upon my life, it was still part of my reality. It did not fade away as I had expected it would. I had found acceptance and it was a great teacher. My wily inner flirt was subdued, I learned self love. I am not talking about masturbation, as that was left behind. I was way more quiet within, and I think more mature.

Once I was gently surrendered to the situation, peaceful and neutral, a key was offered to unlock the temple. I learned how to banish the excruciating pain as quickly as it had taken me over, in one night.

Out of the blue I received a Skype call from my younger friend who had also suffered the painful sex.

She was breathless with excitement. She had been to a masseuse. He pressed a point on her arm and when she winced he asked if she experienced painful sex. Astonished, she said yes. He explained some kind of a connection between a point on her arm and vagina and told her he meets many women with this condition. He told her that in his observation, the problem was due to a simple lack of Vitamin D3. But, it would not be solved if taken orally. It had to be applied locally. She implored me to at least try it even though it sounded crazy.

After we hung up, I dug out a small bottle of vitamin D3 tablets. I snapped one in half and gingerly poked it about an inch inside my dear vagina. It felt like a shard of glass going in and like the princess and the pea, there was a noticeable and annoying discomfort as I lay in bed.

When I awoke in the morning I remembered the experiment and tenderly felt my vulva. To my astonishment it was soft and moist and allowed a pain free touch. I pressed a little further in and hit dry painful tightness. I carefully inserted the second half of the vitamin tablet deep within. Within hours the entire vagina was free from pain, soft, relaxed, moist. The sun was shining, the streets washed clean. It was a clear, new, fresh day filled with sweetness and light.

Gosh! How would you feel if you had suffered all the layers and levels of such a condition for ten years only to discover that a few pennies worth of a common vitamin could offer total relief within hours? It was an odd feeling, a mix because I did recognise all the “gifts” that had accompanied the journey. I felt I had been released suddenly from a kind of imprisonment, but was bewildered and reinvented so not sure what to think of it or how to make good use of it. I had grown accustomed to celibacy, comfortable with being solo.

Time would pass. Maybe I could open again to intimate possibilities. - V.H.
 

 (post menopause)

Just wanted to let you know about something that has made a profound difference for me in our Karezza lovemaking.  Off and on, I would have pain in my vagina and couldn't figure out what it was. When having our love sessions, I couldn't let my husband in more than about an inch or so and sometimes I just had to end it because of the pain.  It was more of a sore tight feeling, but without any burning sensations.  I knew it wasn't a dryness problem because I produce a lot of natural lubrication.
 
For the past several months I've been into using calcium bentonite clay for healing skin problems, as facial clay masks, etc.  It's working so well for me that I bought a 40 lb. bucket of it and have gotten friends and family into using it.  Recently, I read about using the clay for vaginal problems such as cysts,  and general  toxicity in the vaginal tissues. I did what the instructions said.  I hand-shaped suppositories about one inch long and 1/2 inch in thickness and let them dry, uncovered, until firm, but not completely hardened.  It works best when it is still at least partially hydrated. It takes about 12 hours to dry them just right.
 
 I begin inserting one of these every night.and leaving it in overnight.  In the morning the clay suppository either just drops out on its own or I have to manually remove it.  The next night I insert a fresh one. In about 3 days we made love again and the difference has been nothing short of a miracle!  I have no more pain and we can go for deep penetration right away.  My husband says my vagina feels incredibly soft and loose and the movement of the energy circuit between us starts up immediately, instead of having to wait for 30 minutes or more, as it had been when I was experiencing the pain.  

Something interesting about the clay...it is composed of volcanic ash and has a negative charge to it when the dry powder is hydrated and applied to the skin.  This negative charge draws in toxins, bacteria, pathogens and anything else with a positive charge.  The toxins are absorbed into the clay and remain there without affecting surrounding tissues until the clay is removed and washed off or discarded.  I think the improved results we are experiencing in our lovemaking has a lot to do with the fact that this clay has a magnetic charge to it.

We are so pleased to have found something that has worked so well and thought you might want to pass this tip on to other women who are experiencing painful intercourse.

(from r/karezza) My girlfriend had issues with pain during intercourse and slow sex was a wonderful discovery for us that has allowed us to have a truly fulfilling sex life. http://w3.reddit.com/r/karezza/comments/1thqbx/i_discovered_this_subredd...